42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:09 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It doesn't matter what I say you'll believe what you want, but any accusations are a bit rich coming from you.


I do not do "believing" Izzy.



Quote:
On another thread about the benefits of American imperialism you said, notwithstanding the fact that we do not have capital punishment, a far less punitive justice system and Universal Health Care, that were Britain to have the same powers as America the behaviour would be far worse.


Show me where I wrote that, Izzy. I doubt very seriously that you can.



Quote:
The clear implication being that you think there is something inherently disgusting and loathsome about British people, which is why I put you on ignore in the first place.


The only thing I have said about the British people along these lines...is that I am an unabashed Anglophile. I love damn near anything and everything British.

You are so far off base, it is a wonder that you have been able to get there.

So if you ever put me on "ignore" because of any supposed dislike of things British...you screwed up big time.



Quote:
So I'll take no lectures from you.


You are the one giving lectures, Izzy...not I.

Quote:
For the record I've never given money to terrorist groups so they can kill American children. What about you Frank? Have you ever given money to Noraid?


No, I have not.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:45 am
The U.S. military is banning and blocking employees from visiting The Intercept in an apparent effort to censor news reports that contain leaked government secrets.
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps9e7d121c.jpg
Source: The Intercept Wink
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 10:53 am
@revelette2,
That only reinforces my contention that Turkey is unstable in many ways, and Germany is concerned. There is also distrust against Germany from Turkey.

In this climate, it's prudent for Germany to spy on Turkey.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:00 am
@cicerone imposter,
From todayszaman.com.
Quote:
In its report on Saturday, Der Spiegel said Germany's NATO ally was selected for observation in 2009 as part of the German government's procedure of choosing targets to profile every four years. Another German daily, the Frankfurter Allgemeine, confirmed Der Spiegel's report on Sunday, citing anonymous German government sources. It said NATO-member Turkey is listed on the profile order prepared in 2009 by the German government as a target for German intelligence gathering. According to the Frankfurter Allgemeine, Turkey is listed as one of the "core countries" monitored by the BND and that these core countries may be “wiretapped.”
The BND also listened to satellite phone calls made by US Secretary of State John Kerry, his predecessor Hillary Clinton and former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan whilst spying on Turkey, Der Spiegel said.
Merkel's deputy spokeswoman Christiane Wirtz, was asked about the reports of spying at a news conference on Monday, but declined to comment, saying intelligence activities were overseen by a government panel whose deliberations and decisions were secret.
A BND spokeswoman said on Sunday that "in principle" Germany does not carry out surveillance against friendly states like the United States and added: "Any accidental recordings are immediately erased."
But German media quoted unnamed officials saying that this stance did not necessarily apply to all members of NATO, which includes Turkey.

Asked whether Turkey was a friendly nation which should not be the target of spying, Wirtz said: "Germany cooperates closely with Turkey in many different areas".

She cited the war in Syria and insurgency in Iraq as areas of mutual interest.
Germany has complained for months about alleged American spy activity there, with reported eavesdropping on Chancellor Angela Merkel's cell phone prompting a rebuke and an ongoing German investigation.
revelette2
 
  4  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:03 am
@cicerone imposter,
You continually miss the point. Merkel said in a letter to Turkey that the trust and the relationship was important to maintain. She has also said you don't spy on allies. Turkey is an ally of Germany and according to information put out by the German press, (whatever newspaper it was) Germany has been spying on Turkey since 2009. So when Merkel was all up in arms about the US spying on her phone conversations to the US and lecturing the US for spying on allies, she was doing the same to Turkey which makes her hypercritical.

I don't remember when Merkel was lecturing the US, her saying something to the effect of "hey by the way, we have been spying on Turkey for years and in the course of that we "accidently" spied on both Secretary of States, Clinton and Kerry but it was an accident for us having collecting calls from your officials and we are sorry for it. "

I am just saying be careful about throwing stones when you live in a glass house.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:07 am
@cicerone imposter,
Also of concern for Germany and our allies.
Quote:
This soft power pragmatism is in stark contrast with American strategies that mix military might with diplomacy and trade in the Middle East, where anti-US sentiment has reached record highs.

Friendship with the Arabs marks a shift for Turkey, which once saw itself as an eastern bulwark of the Nato alliance.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:09 am
@revelette2,
No, I didn't miss the point, but you did. What is spoken diplomatically is different than what goes on in the real politics of any country.

Turkey doesn't trust Germany. Turkey is making closer ties with their Arab neighbors. Kurds are the majority in Turkey.
revelette2
 
  4  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:12 am
@cicerone imposter,
In other words, she lied to Turkey and was hypercritical to the US. Gotcha.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:13 am
@revelette2,
"Lied?" You gotta be kidding! Do you know of ANY POLITICIAN THAT NEVER LIED? Name one.

Even Jack Kennedy lied.
revelette2
 
  3  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
Wish you was that understanding of the US lately. Never mind.

Face it, this whole spying story is just egg on the face for Merkel. It's that simple.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:21 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
So when Merkel was all up in arms about the US spying on her phone conversations to the US and lecturing the US for spying on allies, she was doing the same to Turkey which makes her hypercritical.
Seems, you know more than we here about what she knew.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:26 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Face it, this whole spying story is just egg on the face for Merkel. It's that simple.
Well, most certainly to that parliamentary committee where lawmakers look at the secret services. They didn't know it.

Speculation is now that a (former) state secretary (Profalla) in charge of the services might have known about it. (Or the actual one.)

Merkel seems to do what she's always doing with problems: waiting, sitting it out.

There will be a lot more to wonder, when the trial starts ....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 11:41 am
@revelette2,
No, it's NOT THAT SIMPLE. Nobody knows what Merkel knew about spying on Turkey. If you know that, where did you learn it from?

When you ASSUME something, you make an _______________.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:48 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
the GOP might try to oppress voting but people will not put up with it. With the way this country is changing demographically, I think even the GOP knows they can only these tactics for so long which is why they are trying their best to woo minorities.

The GOP is not trying to oppress voting.


revelette2 wrote:
Unless they change their entire platform, it will not work IMO. If they do change their platform, there really won't be a need to choose between the two parties unless foreign agenda is what make a person decide which party to belong to. Although the left has went more right, there is still a subtle difference.

The notion that minorities are inherently opposed to conservatism, is nonsense.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:48 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
RABEL222 wrote:
In my opinion the present Isralie government is showing definite Nazi tendencies.

LOL only a very sick mind indeed could find any similarity between acts of pure self defense and the Nazis!!!!!

The cruelty of falsely accusing Israel of Nazism must delight anti-Semites to no end.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:04 pm
@revelette2,
Big difference; the NSA spied on US citizens without a warrant or court authority. It's against the law in the US. What Germany does with other countries is NOT THE SAME.
revelette2
 
  4  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Seems, you know more than we here about what she knew.


Are you saying BND were spying on Turkey without Merkel's permission?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:09 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Are you saying BND were spying on Turkey without Merkel's permission?
At least it looks like it - and there's nothing differently published here .... until this very moment at least.
If it had been done with her permission - that really would be a greater political crisis, since it was done without informing the parliamentary committee.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Big difference; the NSA spied on US citizens without a warrant or court authority. It's against the law in the US. What Germany does with other countries is NOT THE SAME


Not without court authority. Also, this part is domestic and really has nothing to do with Germany main gripe with the US, which was the US spying on her phone conversations.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:13 pm
@revelette2,
That was authorized by Obama himself. So?

From the Telegraph.
Quote:

NewSearch
Wednesday 20 August 2014

Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'
President Barack Obama was told about monitoring of German Chancellor in 2010 and allowed it to continue, says German newspaper
0 Replies
 
 

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