Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

A representative from the congressional district in which I live represents all of us in this district...voters, non-voters, citizens, non-citizens, supporters and opponents alike.

Here in America...WE THE PEOPLE are the government.

That might well be so.

However,

you wrote:

We demand it with our votes.

So personal votes are good demands only for the winner ... or something like that.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Isent it odd how many people claim I am putting words into their mouths. And sorry frank but I have always been afflicted with this shortcoming of translateing words into opinions. You and many others think that by crying you dont understand my verbiage wins an argument. But I read between the lines very well. Maybe you dont understand yourself that you are saying love it or leave it. I know lots of people who when confronted say thats not what I meant when I said that. But they did. And to remind you of what you said to Ci and myself it was "if you hate america so much you should leave it". You need to learn the difference between the U S of A government the country.

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
A representative from the congressional district in which I live represents all of us in this district...voters, non-voters, citizens, non-citizens, supporters and opponents alike.

Here in America...WE THE PEOPLE are the government.

That might well be so.

However,

you wrote:
We demand it with our votes.

We do demand it with our votes. We have that "agreement" that I mentioned. The person who gets the majority (or plurality) wins...and becomes the representative of the office being contested.

We DEMAND that all elected office be put to a vote...and we agree that we will abide by that election.

So...we demand it with our votes.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

(I did not know Rabel was male...I thought Rabel was female.)

I am kind of cute for an old bearded fat man.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

Not only our government vs country, but our freedom to speak our minds about our government. It's called 'freedom of speech.' It's what is allowed in democracies without fear of reprisal.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Blatham posted:

Quote:

If we understand the conservative dynamic as that which seeks to preserve hierarchies of power and dominance in the face of "threats" from below (eg blacks gaining equality, women rising to equality with males, workers' unions gaining power to determine conditions in factories, the lower classes gaining institutional tools and means to have a say in the structure of society, etc) we can understand why those of privilege are so passionate about any such threat from below. Assange's project has the very real potential to bring about something like a modern world French Revolution. Which is why everybody and their dog is after him; governments around the world, corporate entities, even a lot of the media. My trepidation centers on the unknown aspects of what might follow from such a deep upset of existing orders.

If this is going to happen someone better figure out how to acquire the 3 or 4 trillion dollars it will take to buck the system. We dont own the media like the ultra rich do and the Supreme Court is going to keep it that way.

0 Replies

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Isent it odd how many people claim I am putting words into their mouths. And sorry frank but I have always been afflicted with this shortcoming of translateing words into opinions. You and many others think that by crying you dont understand my verbiage wins an argument. But I read between the lines very well.

I cannot comment on that, Rabel...but in this instance...you are not doing it very well at all.

You have it all wrong...as I have explained several times now.

Quote:

Maybe you dont understand yourself that you are saying love it or leave it.

Maybe you do not understand...or will not accept...that I am NOT saying that at all.

Quote:

I know lots of people who when confronted say thats not what I meant when I said that.

I am not one of them. I meant exactly what I said. You are trying to twist what I said to suit some purpose of yours. It is not going to work.

I said exactly what I mean when I said that I was not saying "love it or leave it"...words you will not find me saying.

Quote:

But they did.

That is there problem. I am not saying "love it or leave it."

Quote:

And to remind you of what you said to Ci and myself it was "if you hate america so much you should leave it".

As a matter of fact, that is NOT what I said. Go back and quote exactly what I did say to you and ci.

If, however, you hate and loathe the US so much that you must write post after post telling everyone how much you hate it...

...then YOU SHOULD consider moving somewhere else. You should want to live a happy content life...and if you cannot do it here...you should consider a move.

If you do not like that advice...disregard it. But don't tell me that I cannot offer it...and do not mischaracterize what I am offering.

Quote:

You need to learn the difference between the U S of A government the country.

WE THE PEOPLE are the government. You have to finally get up to speed on that, Rabel.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Quote:
(I did not know Rabel was male...I thought Rabel was female.)

I am kind of cute for an old bearded fat man.

I apologize for the error, Rabel. For some reason, I thought I saw someone refer to you with a female pronoun...and thought they knew something I did not.

I also am an old, bearded man (kinda scrawny) so I understand.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Not only our government vs country, but our freedom to speak our minds about our government. It's called 'freedom of speech.' It's what is allowed in democracies without fear of reprisal.

And we have it here in spades.

Speak against the government all you want...which you do. Nobody is going to do anything to you.

WE are the government.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

I wish this held true for Google and all the other bigshot companies who gather information on me and profile me without my permission. It is pretty shallow to say only the government needs to get permission to spy. I was just informed by my stock brokers that if something happens that I dont like I cant sue them but have to go to their pet arbitrator. That gives another companies contract I havent signed the right to screw me with the blessings of the courts.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Physically Yes, Verbally no.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank said

Quote:

Here in America...there is no doubt about how anyone is elected to office.

Except when the Supreme Court decides to elect a president.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

So, the "we" in "we are the government" would be a minority of all citizens of my country.

And its the same here even though Frank said its a majority government.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I am not one of them.

Very seldom does one recognize themselves Frank. You can claim that you havent said those words but you have. Its sad to see someone I mostly admire become like a butfuk and refuse to admit what is most apparent to some others on this site.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Frank said

Quote:
Here in America...there is no doubt about how anyone is elected to office.

Except when the Supreme Court decides to elect a president.

George Bush was elected by the people. Al Gore conceded that he was...and the courts ruled the way they did.

That is the way we do things here.

It frosted my chongs to see it happen...and I hated it. But George Bush served those eight years...and was our president.

0 Replies

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Quote:
So, the "we" in "we are the government" would be a minority of all citizens of my country.

And its the same here even though Frank said its a majority government.

No it is not the same here...and I doubt seriously it is that way over there either.

We elect the government. Some people cop out...and do not vote. They are still part of the process. Some people vote for the person who loses. They are still part of the process.

We elect our government...even if you are not disposed to acknowledge so.

0 Replies

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Quote:
I am not one of them.

Very seldom does one recognize themselves Frank.

Is that some piece of Rabel philosophy that we all have to accept, because you need it to stay in this argument?

Quote:

You can claim that you havent said those words but you have.

I have not...except when quoting what you have said.

I defy you to find any post of mine where I said, "Love it or leave it." And please do not come up with that trash Beth just did...because the notion of "love it or leave it" was not there.

Quote:

Its sad to see someone I mostly admire become like a butfuk and refuse to admit what is most apparent to some others on this site.

You have taken a poll of people on this site, Rabel?

Many of the people on the site are not even involved...and do not want to be.

In any case, I DID NOT SAY TO ANYONE, "Love it or leave it."

You can end this very easily by simply citing a quote from me saying that...BUT YOU CANNOT.

Because I never said it...nor did I imply it.

But keep dreaming.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

RABEL222 wrote:

No. You are right on. It is the people who piously say love it or leave it no matter how fuked up it is that dont understand democracy.

Name somebody here who has said "love it or leave it", Rabel.

No one here has suggested that...or even come close to doing so.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5583800/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

You scorn America and its government, ci.

You should try somewhere else to live...somewhere more to your liking.

Maybe Mars!

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585144/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

No fear mongering on my part, ci. You just want to scorn the US government. I cannot understand why you don't join Snowden in Russia...where you can have real freedom.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585174/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

I have visited Russia twice, and enjoyed myself tremendously; what has that got to do with where I live?

Too bad you didn't stay there.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585197/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

That is NOT asking ci to seek asylum. He has committed no crime that I know of, Walter. I answered that earlier. He could simply ask to move there...since he is so dissatisfied with our government.
/http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585215

Frank Apisa wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Why would anyone consider moving to another country because they are dissatisfied with their government in any democracy?

Lots of people have done it. You'd have to ask one of them.

In any case, you sound as though you hate it here so much...and since I like you...I thought I would recommend one way to get away from it all, so to speak.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585235

quote="Frank Apisa"]
cicerone imposter wrote:

I can decide on my very own whether I'm happy in my country or not; none of your business.

You certainly can, ci...but since you seem to go on day after day, week after week about how disgruntled you are with the American government, I felt as a friend that I should at least suggest consider moving away.

these are from a few pages earlier this year

there is more

am I curious how P.O. Apisa will rationalize his comments? a bit, but I saw how he tried to rationalize it to Walter in middle of ^^^ and I don't imagine there's much new in the tool kit

Ebeth who has more patience than me found these passages written by you Frank. They say love it or leave it in so many words. You can deny all you want but I am satisfied that that is exactly what you meant by these words. I will not discuss this with you again. I dont believe in self flagellation.

2 Replies

@RABEL222,

Did Frank say anything important? Let me know when he does. LOL

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

I don't live in the Ukraine, I live in Britain. Why do you think America is safer than Britain re Putin? If he's going to bomb us, he's going to bomb you.

Putin's ambitions don't stretch further than the former Soviet Union. It's seen as stopping incursions from the West, not expanding. Ukraine was under Putin's influence, now it's more Western. It's rearguard, not expansionist action. NATO's the one that's been gobbling up Eastern Europe. (Language chosen to reflect Russian attitude.)

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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