Snowdon is a dummy

@revelette2,

No need for a lesson on civics, and how our elections work. It doesn't matter what party selects our supreme court judges; they should understand the US Constitution and abide by it. They don't.

It doesn't matter who we vote for; I've learned that over 50 years of voting in every election. Presidents lie to the citizens and gets us into illegal wars that kills tens of thousands of innocent people. Today, congress is broken, and nothing gets done. All the branches of our government allowed NSA to overstepped their legal authority; out Constitutional rights to privacy.

There's no excuse for those actions by our leaders. NONE.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

RABEL222 wrote:

No. You are right on. It is the people who piously say love it or leave it no matter how fuked up it is that dont understand democracy.

Name somebody here who has said "love it or leave it", Rabel.

No one here has suggested that...or even come close to doing so.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5583800/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

You scorn America and its government, ci.

You should try somewhere else to live...somewhere more to your liking.

Maybe Mars!

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585144/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

No fear mongering on my part, ci. You just want to scorn the US government. I cannot understand why you don't join Snowden in Russia...where you can have real freedom.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585174/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

I have visited Russia twice, and enjoyed myself tremendously; what has that got to do with where I live?

Too bad you didn't stay there.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585197/quote/

Frank Apisa wrote:

That is NOT asking ci to seek asylum. He has committed no crime that I know of, Walter. I answered that earlier. He could simply ask to move there...since he is so dissatisfied with our government.
/http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585215

Frank Apisa wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Why would anyone consider moving to another country because they are dissatisfied with their government in any democracy?

Lots of people have done it. You'd have to ask one of them.

In any case, you sound as though you hate it here so much...and since I like you...I thought I would recommend one way to get away from it all, so to speak.

http://able2know.org/reply/post-5585235

quote="Frank Apisa"]

cicerone imposter wrote:

I can decide on my very own whether I'm happy in my country or not; none of your business.

You certainly can, ci...but since you seem to go on day after day, week after week about how disgruntled you are with the American government, I felt as a friend that I should at least suggest consider moving away.

these are from a few pages earlier this year

there is more

am I curious how P.O. Apisa will rationalize his comments? a bit, but I saw how he tried to rationalize it to Walter in middle of ^^^ and I don't imagine there's much new in the tool kit

Beth...I have said dozens of times that if someone really hates it here...someone who shows scorn, contempt, and loathing in post after post...relentlessly...

...they ought to consider moving somewhere else.

In none of the posts you cited did I ever say "love it or leave it."

There is a huge difference between telling someone who hates something to consider getting away from it...and telling someone, "If you do not love it, you should get away from it."

Even someone like you should be able to see the difference.

Really...just keep looking at it...and maybe ask someone for some help. Eventually, you will be able to see the difference.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

No need for a lesson on civics, and how our elections work. It doesn't matter what party selects our supreme court judges; they should understand the US Constitution and abide by it. They don't.

Ahhh...so now the people elected and the Justices of the Supreme Court do not understand and abide by the Constitution...

...and this is proclaimed by ci!

Jesus. It just doesn't get much more bizarre than this.

Quote:

It doesn't matter who we vote for; I've learned that over 50 years of voting in every election. Presidents lie to the citizens and gets us into illegal wars that kills tens of thousands of innocent people. Today, congress is broken, and nothing gets done. All the branches of our government allowed NSA to overstepped their legal authority; out Constitutional rights to privacy.

Actually...any "constitutional right to privacy" has been set into being by modern courts...not by the Constitution.

And just like the First Amendment right to free speech...the courts can interpret in ways that allow for abridgment.

You are stuck in a mode of black and white...when you should be thinking gray.

Quote:

There's no excuse for those actions by our leaders. NONE.

YOU are NOT the determinant of that, ci. Get off your ego and recognize that.

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Oh, by the way...I to not think Edward Snowden is a dummy.

And I do think he deserves a fair trial.

0 Replies

@revelette2,

Quote:

People are not showing up in our homes, searching through our personal papers. NSA is not listening in to all phone calls, but rather storing data, sorting through with the use of certain words which might merit more scrutiny. Personally, I don't see the big deal and even if it only helps stop one act of terror

My computers. email, and my cloud storage contain far more personal information then all the hard copy information in my home by a factor of a thousands or so.

The SC even came to that conclusion of where the bulk of private information can now be found with their very recent ruling concerning smart phones and that the full protection of the fourth amendment should apply to any searches of them.

The government does no have any reason to do scanning of my files or the bulk of the American people or the bulk of the rest of the world either and to do so break the very oath they had all taken to defend and protected the constitution.

Snowden was one of the few brave enough to follow the constitution and his oath and warn the rest of us what was being done behind our back. He is a real American hero.

Footnote I do not trust the courts completely to protected my information and used state of the art encryption and do not own a smart phone as the level of protection you can employ with them does not yet meet my standards.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

And you've responded precisely as I told someone you would. Word for word.

Right down to the attempt to insult Wink

Exquisitely predictable P.O. Apisa.

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

How so? What words do you consider the insult? In any case, Frank is not telling anyone to love their country and if you don't, leave it. He has said, if you hate it, maybe you should consider leaving it. Like if someone orders coffee with cream, every day they say they hate cream, yet they keep ordering it. Finally rationally the waiter says, "if you hate it so much, why not consider not ordering cream in your coffee?" It is a suggestion.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

NSA was not doing anything behind our backs. We gave them the authority to do much of what they are doing every single time congress passed the Patriot Act with little or no objection from us. We just didn't know the extent they were doing it or the methods.

We Allowed This to Happen

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

And you've responded precisely as I told someone you would. Word for word.

Right down to the attempt to insult

Exquisitely predictable P.O. Apisa.

I responded to you exactly the way I should have.

If you do not understand the difference between the "love it or leave it"...and what has been explained here...

...get help from someone.

You got back exactly what you wanted, Beth.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

How so? What words do you consider the insult? In any case, Frank is not telling anyone to love their country and if you don't, leave it. He has said, if you hate it, maybe you should consider leaving it. Like if someone orders coffee with cream, every day they say they hate cream, yet they keep ordering it. Finally rationally the waiter says, "if you hate it so much, why not consider not ordering cream in your coffee?" It is a suggestion.

I think Beth knows that...but her agenda requires that she pretend she doesn't. But I thank you for attempting to explain it to her.

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@revelette2,

"We?" There's a reason we have three branches of government; they're supposed to watch over each other. Most citizens are not aware of the many goings-on in our own government. Your expectations are not even reasonable or realistic!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

"We?" There's a reason we have three branches of government; they're supposed to watch over each other. Most citizens are not aware of the many goings-on in our own government. Your expectations are not even reasonable or realistic!

Revelette, your expectations are a good deal more reasonable and realistic than the jaded, hate-filled nonsense ci apparently HAS TO post.

There are three branches of government...and they have an inherent "check and balance" function.

But WE, THE PEOPLE are the reason the government...is the government. We elect people to govern us...and appointments are made by the people whom we elect.

WE...are the government.

You, Revelette, have it right; ci has it all wrong.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

WE...are the government.

I've always wondered about that, even in a (more or less) two-party-system.

Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite. (Every nation gets the government it deserves.) Joseph de Maistre

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
WE...are the government.

I've always wondered about that, even in a (more or less) two-party-system.

Put your mind to ease on the question, Walter.

Here in America...there is no doubt about how anyone is elected to office.

WE THE PEOPLE elect them.

The special interests and corporations and wealthy can attempt to influence us all they want...but when the curtain is closed behind each of us as we enter the voting booth...we are free to turn the lever; push the button; or write in the name of OUR CHOICE.

WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for all the electees and the people whom they appoint or hire to fill the responsibilities of governance.

Governance is not an easy thing, Walter...but it is easy to criticize. People have been criticizing governments and governance since the beginning of recorded history.

But without a shred of doubt...here in America...WE THE PEOPLE are the government.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

As for that signature line, Walter...

...not only do we get the government we deserve...

...here in America, we get the government we demand.

We demand it with our votes.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

We demand it with our votes.

Same here, believe me,

But those, who didn't vote for the governmental party/parties, they are represented by the opposition party/paties and not by the government.
And those, who didn't vote at all or voted for parties, which didn't gt a seat in the parliament, aren't represented at all.

So, the "we" in "we are the government" would be a minority of all citizens of my country.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

...here in America, we get the government we demand.

We demand it with our votes.

We don't. Some do, correct.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

NSA was not doing anything behind our backs

Oh? So Snowden did not reveal programs and massive spying that we was unaware of!!!!!!!!!

By the way what part of the laws allowed the CIA to hacked into a US Senate computer network or lied to congress?

An what laws allowed the intelligent community to break the constitution as even the secret intelligence court had found in at least one case/program?

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
We demand it with our votes.

Same here, believe me,

But those, who didn't vote for the governmental party/parties, they are represented by the opposition party/paties and not by the government.
And those, who didn't vote at all or voted for parties, which didn't gt a seat in the parliament, aren't represented at all.

For that to be correct, Walter, it would mean that unless the candidate you support wins...you are not being represented.

I consider that to be faulty reasoning.

On many occasions the candidate I supported did not win...but at no time did I suppose that because of that...I was not being represented. The "agreement" in a society such as ours is that an election will be held...and the majority (or plurality) determines the winner. The winner then represents the people (both winner, losers, and non-voters) in the government.

Quote:

So, the "we" in "we are the government" would be a minority of all citizens of my country.

Only if you suppose that unless YOUR candidate wins...you are not being represented. I cannot speak to Germany, but that is not the way things work here in America.

A representative from the congressional district in which I live represents all of us in this district...voters, non-voters, citizens, non-citizens, supporters and opponents alike.

Here in America...WE THE PEOPLE are the government.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

What reputation Izzy. According to you and several other posters on this site the U S of A has shyt for a reputation. So why should we try to impress people who arnt going the give the U S a break. Tell it to Putan and his boys when they take over. I for one dont want to become involved in another Europian war but unfortunately i'm a minority. We have our nucular weapons to keep us free from foreign despots. Now if we could figure out how to get rid of the U S despots I would die a happy man.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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