42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 09:31 am
Ron Paul: Clemency for Edward Snowden: Bring Him Home:
Quote:
The Texas Republican and many-times presidential candidate launched a clemency petition for Snowden back in February that has now tallied more than 37,000 signatures. A separate petition on the White House's website has garnered more than 160,000 signatures. Any White House petition that earns more than 100,000 signatures is typically met with an official response, but the Obama administration had yet to deliver one regarding Snowden.
Source for above quotation
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 09:35 am
@Walter Hinteler,
How Will US Data Companies Suffer In The Wake Of The Snowden Leaks?
Quote:
[...]
The United States hosts the Goliaths of global cloud computing, and overseas companies that have been chomping at the bit to gain a chunk of cloud computing market share see this distrust as a marketing opportunity. Some of these foreign storage providers, like F-Secure—whose services are now being offered by companies like AT&T (T) and British Telecommunications (BT)—are touting the privacy of their storage. Companies like F-Secure have their data centers in the EU, where privacy laws aren’t as lax as in the US.

To try to level the playing field, the European Commission is developing a public cloud infrastructure for public and private use for the region. What’s more, big Chinese companies like Chinanet (CNET), Shanda (GAME), Kingsoft ( KSFTF) , Alibaba (will have its US IPO in 2014) and Huawei are investing in locally based cloud technology as well.

According to the New America report, several US-based tech companies, including Qualcomm (QCOM), IBM (IBM), Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) and Microsoft have reported a decline in sales in China in the time since the leaks. The German government is reportedly severing its contracts with Verizon because of their cooperation with the NSA, and in December Brazil gave a $4.5 billion contract to Saab (SAABF) over Boeing (BA), with the NSA taking the blame. The issue reaches down to smaller businesses as well, like Servint, a webhosting company that “reported in June 2014 that international clients have declined by as much as half … since the leaks began.”

In the US, the future data security looks somewhat promising in light of new senate legislation that would better regulate bulk data collection by the NSA, although many feel the reform bill is only a first step toward security. While proponents of the bill hope that it will help restore trust in the Internet in the US, it would likely take some time to restore international confidence in US-based services.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 10:32 am
@BillRM,
Merry Old England is a place that doesn't exist. The illegal stuff was never mainstream, and you're deliberately distorting the facts because your position is untenable. You did the same thing when you claimed a couple of doctors from Hertfordshire represented mainstream medical opinion in the UK.

With you it's all ignorance and scaremongering.

What the **** is fisking?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 11:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Personally I think that would be worse than just letting him live in Russia. It would give anyone license to think they can steal any classified information if they feel like it, using any excuse to justify it. I don't think there would be a president who would do so in actuality. (including Jimmy Carter, there would be too many legal problems involved in doing so for one thing)

I know everyone is going to disagree besides the few on this thread who are on the side I'm on, so rather than getting into one of those pointless debates once again, I'll just say, I realize you feel that way.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 11:12 am
Quote:
In the US, the future data security looks somewhat promising in light of new senate legislation that would better regulate bulk data collection by the NSA, although many feel the reform bill is only a first step toward security. While proponents of the bill hope that it will help restore trust in the Internet in the US, it would likely take some time to restore international confidence in US-based services.


Well, that is good to know.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 11:22 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Personally I think that would be worse than just letting him live in Russia. It would give anyone license to think they can steal any classified information if they feel like it, using any excuse to justify it. I don't think there would be a president who would do so in actuality. (including Jimmy Carter, there would be too many legal problems involved in doing so for one thing)

I know everyone is going to disagree besides the few on this thread who are on the side I'm on, so rather than getting into one of those pointless debates once again, I'll just say, I realize you feel that way.


Any president who would grant amnesty or clemency to Edward Snowden would doom his/her party to oblivion for decades to come. And would put this country in jeopardy worse than it has ever faced, by essentially telling everyone..."If you feel the urge, just steal whatever classified material you want. You will not have to pay...nor even run the risk of a trial."

In any case, I cannot imagine ANY president actually granting clemency.

Snowden deserves a trial...a fair trial...and nothing more.
engineer
 
  3  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 12:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm not sure any President would pardon Snowden, but I don't think it would be out of the question. There is certainly a strong strain of the political population among liberals and libertarians that think Snowden is a hero and the US public is about evenly split so it wouldn't be political suicide. Someone from those wings would be an outside shot for the White House but if one would make it I could see a pardon. Some of Clinton's pardons were really distasteful and that didn't stop Obama from getting elected.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 01:20 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I'm not sure any President would pardon Snowden, but I don't think it would be out of the question. There is certainly a strong strain of the political population among liberals and libertarians that think Snowden is a hero and the US public is about evenly split so it wouldn't be political suicide. Someone from those wings would be an outside shot for the White House but if one would make it I could see a pardon. Some of Clinton's pardons were really distasteful and that didn't stop Obama from getting elected.


Yeah, you are right, Engineer.

I may have been a bit more emphatic than necessary.

But I still think the idea of clemency is a very long shot.

I certainly do not think clemency is appropriate.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 01:47 pm
@revelette2,
Rev, I wish you and Frank were right. I wish a informed electroate would take government in hand and change it for the better. But read your local newspaper, watch your local tv station. The Isralies and big business own both sources of the media and government, what they say is poor Israel, bad Hamas. You notice they equate Hamas with all palistinians. 60 Jewish solders killed, 1800 palistinian. Gives one the notion that 1800 pal solders have been killed. Maybe 200 hamas 1600 civilians mostly women and children but no one in the paper I read points that out so one has to be willing to get on the computer and go to foreign english media to really find the true facts. Most are too lazy to do this and accept the media garbage as fact.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 01:53 pm
@engineer,
But as I remember it it did help Bush a little bit.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 02:02 pm
@engineer,
Your right, some of Clinton's pardons were terrible. I really don't know why he did it frankly. It was at the end of his term, for the most part, most of the average person who really don't keep up with these things, didn't know who they were, I didn't know them until it was in the press and I looked that one guy up. Everyone knows who Snowden is and what he did. Besides all else, it would set a bad precedent.
Frank Apisa
 
  -2  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 02:12 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Rev, I wish you and Frank were right. I wish a informed electroate would take government in hand and change it for the better. But read your local newspaper, watch your local tv station. The Isralies and big business own both sources of the media and government, what they say is poor Israel, bad Hamas. You notice they equate Hamas with all palistinians. 60 Jewish solders killed, 1800 palistinian. Gives one the notion that 1800 pal solders have been killed. Maybe 200 hamas 1600 civilians mostly women and children but no one in the paper I read points that out so one has to be willing to get on the computer and go to foreign english media to really find the true facts. Most are too lazy to do this and accept the media garbage as fact.


Rabel...I understand your frustration. We all share it...even those who seem to be on the other side of the issue from you.

But you are going too far when you say that American media is not reporting some of this stuff. It is.

Here is an article from the NY Times...an American media star...that reads:



More than 140 bodies were recovered across Gaza on Saturday — including 21 members of one family — raising the Palestinian death toll to 1,139, most of them civilians, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry. On the Israeli side, 42 soldiers and three civilians have been killed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/world/middleeast/israel-gaza.html?_r=0

This was obtained after a sixty second search. There are many, many, many others out there. The media is reporting the facts...and even if there is a bias...it is not short changing the areas you want highlighted anywhere near as much as you seem to think.


Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 02:13 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Your right, some of Clinton's pardons were terrible. I really don't know why he did it frankly. It was at the end of his term, for the most part, most of the average person who really don't keep up with these things, didn't know who they were, I didn't know them until it was in the press and I looked that one guy up. Everyone knows who Snowden is and what he did. Besides all else, it would set a bad precedent.


Very bad...absolutely unacceptably bad, in fact.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 08:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
As you said you had to search. It wasent on the front page because it dident follow the correct political form. The newspaper I receive is nothing more than a conservative rag that follows conservative dogma and I know how to get news on the computer. Its the only way I can get the facts. Oh and the local radio is even more conservative, Lush Limbaugh is their hero.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 5 Aug, 2014 06:38 am
@revelette2,
CI, and i agree with him there, doesn't think of the US a as a functional democracy. The lobbies and funders are calling the shots, not the voters.

And now that you have allowed the spooks to spy on anyone including MPs, what makes you think your representative is not being cowed into submission by some blackmail or another?

Even in a true democracy, the government only represents 50+% of the people, so equating government and country is always a mistake.

Quote:
I would not think it is my place to tell someone they should leave, 

Thanks for not being a condescending jerk.
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 5 Aug, 2014 08:33 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Gives one the notion that 1800 pal solders have been killed. Maybe 200 hamas 1600 civilians mostly women and children but no one in the paper


What nonsense as all the news channels in the US and network news are covering scenes of either dead or wounded Palestinians children.

It just that people understand that if you allow yourself to be govern by terrorists who are trying to kill other people children, then your children will likely paid a high price indeed.

Israel as any other nation first duty is to it own people including it own women and children and if protecting them mean that sadly the women and children that are being used as human shields by those terrorists are killed or harm then so be it.

If the millions of Palestinians in Gaza are unhappy about this I would strongly suggest that they turn on Hamas and stop the missile launches.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 5 Aug, 2014 08:50 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
And now that you have allowed the spooks to spy on anyone including MPs, what makes you think your representative is not being cowed into submission by some blackmail or another?



I think you all's imaginations have run a bit amuck, perhaps too many spy movies.

Quote:
Even in a true democracy, the government only represents 50+% of the people, so equating government and country is always a mistake.


Perhaps, even so, when Bush was President, I disliked most of his polices (except his immigration and his prescription drug thing), I still loved my country and I still believed in the country and thought it could be better. Obama has improved some of the things, some of things have remained the same, but still I have hopes for the future. Which is my only point.

Personally I think we have belabored this to death. So you guys hate the government of the US and think it has no chance to get better. Fine.

BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 5 Aug, 2014 09:02 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Quote:
And now that you have allowed the spooks to spy on anyone including MPs, what makes you think your representative is not being cowed into submission by some blackmail or another?



I think you all's imaginations have run a bit amuck, perhaps too many spy movies.


Look at the known actions of Hoover in blackmailing both congressmen and presidents during his decades as the head of the FBI.

No need to watch fiction as we have a fine example of what have happen in the past to look to.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 5 Aug, 2014 09:07 am
@BillRM,
Good memory; Hoover charged everybody with being a communist, and ruined many lives. People don't realize that history repeats itself over and over....
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 5 Aug, 2014 09:20 am
If NSA had known about this ...

0 Replies
 
 

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