Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

Utopian my ass. I dont want utopia. I just want good fair government for everyone rather than a powerful few who own the media and the legislature lock stock and barrel. A major point is the fact that we supply Israel with the ammunition to commit 1650 murders and the majority believe its justified because all they see in the media is bad bad Hamas. And Netenheu or however you spell his name is considered a hero. The bastard is nothing more than a bloody murdering racist who should be hung.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

oralloy wrote:
BillRM wrote:
The US government with the help of the courts are going to dig the graves of American firms as why give your information to a trustee that could be order in secret to turn the information over to a foreign government even when the information is in your own nation?

The notion that "if the government shows up with a valid search warrant, a site will give them the information they seek" is hardly controversial.

Not true when it come to a foreign government using their companies to seized information located on another nation soil of that nation own citizens and against that nation laws.

I disagree. It is perfectly reasonable for companies to turn over information when presented with a valid search warrant.

BillRM wrote:

Bet you would wish to declare war if that would happen to an American citizen with the Russian government doing such nonsense.

If an American were committing crimes in Russia, and Russia presented a valid search warrant to a company with a presence in Russia, I would expect that company to comply with the search warrant.

If it were merely Putin trying to get a list of democracy activists, then I would recommend not complying with the search warrant.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
If they conduct a transaction denominated in US dollars, the US government claims jurisdiction over that transaction, no matter where on the planet the transaction takes place.

That is not what your post said to which I responded.

It has the same effect. As nearly all international transactions are denominated in dollars, it gives the US jurisdiction over nearly all international transactions.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

As a side question: do you think, any country should abandon the non-extraterritoriality of laws or has only the U.S.A. the right to do so?

I don't think that this counts as such an abandonment.

I do think that the same principle should apply to other countries.

If an international company with a presence in Germany has data relevant to a criminal case in Germany, and that data were stored outside Germany, I would find it reasonable for a German search warrant to compel that company to turn the data over.

One exception I would make is if a country were clearly using a search warrant not for the purposes of justice, but rather for injustice. For instance, if Putin were using a search warrant to get his hands on a list of democracy activists, I would hope that such a request would be denied.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

oralloy wrote:
BillRM wrote:
However the simple solution is not to do business over such matters with any US firm problem solve except for US firms.being locked out of the international information storage business.

A retaliatory trade war should nip such behavior in the bud.

How?

By damaging their economy until they choose to stop damaging ours.

BillRM wrote:

The US government is not going to be able to force individuals and companies to place important information in the hands of those they do not have trust in.

The fact a company hands over information when the government presents them with a valid search warrant is not a reason to distrust the company.

BillRM wrote:

I still use US cloud storage but I would never never place any important and private information that is not encrypted first with 256 AES before leaving my also encrypted computers.

I don't use cloud storage (still on dialup, though hopefully not for much longer). But I've been dubious of the concept from the start.

But not because of fears about the government. If I did use cloud storage, I'm sure if the government ever suspected me of anything and got a warrant to look at my data, they would quickly determine that their suspicions were groundless and be on their way.

My reasons for being dubious of cloud storage is rather fear of ordinary hackers tampering with my data. Or the possibility that some sort of silly goof up would erase all my data.

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@oralloy,

The US dollar does not have jurisdiction over all international transactions; currencies are converted to different values all the time in the world marketplace.
The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only organization that rules international trade.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

It has the same effect. As nearly all international transactions are denominated in dollars, it gives the US jurisdiction over nearly all international transactions.

Misusing power is a fast way to loss that power as changing over to the EU from the dollar as the world reserve currency would not be a hard task for the world to do.

Quote:

If an international company with a presence in Germany has data relevant to a criminal case in Germany, and that data were stored outside Germany, I would find it reasonable for a German search warrant to compel that company to turn the data over.

Even if doing so happen to violence the laws of the nation where the data happen to exist?

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@oralloy,

Quote:

By damaging their economy until they choose to stop damaging ours.

The only ones damaging the US economic in this case is the US government and even American citizens are starting to prefer doing business in this area with foreign base firms then US firms.

Next the US government better get this trade war going because US firms had already lost tens of billions of dollars of business over this issue with no end in sight.

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@Olivier5,

They don't, they get offended, especially if you do it more than once, which I have. (I'm on holiday, I can't be expected to remember who the Canadians are.)

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
Don't you enjoy being part of these others who think America is beneath contempt, ci.

NEWS: I have contempt for our government.

WE, the people...ARE the government here!

We elect the people who govern us. We are the people who choose who will be the people from whom we can choose. We comprise the Democrats, Republicans, and Independents (independents).

Your nonsense about having contempt for the government...and trying to make that seem you are not having contempt for the United States...is a joke, whether you can see it or not.

Stay here and enjoy the benefits of being an American. That is what I expect you to do. And continue to spew your hatred, contempt, and loathing for the country.

And I will continue to laugh as you try to make that something other than what it is.

Quote:

I'm no longer proud of our country.

Really!

It is obvious that you are not proud of our country, ci. I doubt very seriously that you have ever been proud of it...rather than that you "are no longer" proud of it.

You hold it in contempt; you scorn it; you bad-mouth it at every opportunity...and my guess is you have felt that way about it since childhood.

You should be man enough to just leave it and live somewhere else, but you do not have the spine for that...so you will continue to live here; enjoy the benefits of citizenship: and continue to speak of the country as garbage.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Why should someone be proud of her/his country?

I'm not, but I like it here. (But I didn't choose to be born here.)
I dislike our government - I didn't vote for them.

I enjoy the benefits of living here: I am a citizen of this country and Europe.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Since new information indicates that Israeli intelligence eavesdropped on telephone conversations by US Secretary of State John Kerry ... are you now starting to make the same jokes about Kerry and your government as you did about Merkel, Frank?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Kerry is waaaay too naive for the Middle East, it appears. The fool was using normal, non-encrypted telephones... How stupid is that? No wonder he can't get a break from Netanyahu.

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@Olivier5,

It really would be naïve to think that members of the Israeli intelligence service would not spy on the mobile phones of the US Secretary of State and other members of the US-Government and Administration.
That's what is done between closest allies and friends!
(And that's the lesson I've learnt from Frank.)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Since I didn't make jokes or approve, these things I guess happen. Wonder why people think encrypted solves everything? Don't they think, the encrypted codes can be solved as well?

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@revelette2,

Quote:

Don't they think, the encrypted codes can be solved as well?

Modern state of the art ciphers done correctly not at all likely to be broken and it they can be broken it would likely take millions of dollars per message and would not be something the government would like to admitted to in order to bring a legal case against anyone.

I know that at the level of the FBI they had run into files and communications they could not break and needed to try to get a court to agree to force the owners to un-encrypt the files.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Since new information indicates that Israeli intelligence eavesdropped on telephone conversations by US Secretary of State John Kerry ... are you now starting to make the same jokes about Kerry and your government as you did about Merkel, Frank?

Oh and the US government is so stupid it would not have any private phone communications protected at least the communications that does not involve asking what his wife wish him to pick up on the way home.

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@revelette2,

Hi Rev. Haven't seen your response to the questions below. Would you mind clarifying your position?

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
All Frank is saying is, from he has gathered in reading several posts of CI's is that CI thinks no matter who is elected to run the government, this country has no chance to get better than it is right now. Like there is nothing we can do to make it better so why bother to vote because no one can make it better.

That's not ALL what Frank is saying. That's in fact what CI is saying. What Frank is saying is that, because ci thinks so, HE SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY. This is what I have an issue with. He is also saying that whoever dislike the way the country is governed, HATES THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

Do you agree with Frank on those two points, rev?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Why should someone be proud of her/his country?

Beats me...but it is something ci brought up...so I commented on it. He said he was "no longer proud of his country." So ask him.

My quarrel with him is that he constantly bad-mouths it...and seems to abhor it; holds it in contempt; scorns it.

Quote:

I'm not, but I like it here. (But I didn't choose to be born here.)
I dislike our government - I didn't vote for them.

I enjoy the benefits of living here: I am a citizen of this country and Europe.

Good for you. You get no argument from me on that.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Since new information indicates that Israeli intelligence eavesdropped on telephone conversations by US Secretary of State John Kerry ... are you now starting to make the same jokes about Kerry and your government as you did about Merkel, Frank?

What specifically are you talking about, Walter.

I expect that Israel has spied on us regularly.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Kerry is waaaay too naive for the Middle East, it appears. The fool was using normal, non-encrypted telephones... How stupid is that? No wonder he can't get a break from Netanyahu.

There may be a reason he did it, Olivier. Just as there may be a reason Merkel did it. Ever hear of disinformation?

Merkel may have trusted the United States...but did Merkel trust every other government in the world?

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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