Snowdon is a dummy

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Also, there has been some changes being proposed to roll back NSA surveillance powers.

The program that they are rolling back is one that was highly damaged by Snowden's revelations, and thus is less useful to us now regardless.

Effectively canceling the program is a good way to take some heat off the NSA without doing much more damage than has already been done.

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BOSTON (Reuters) -- Tor, the Internet privacy protecting service, said on Wednesday it discovered a compromise on its network that indicated somebody was trying to monitor the activity of its users.

"While we don't know when they started doing the attack, users who operated or accessed hidden services from early February through July 4 should assume they were affected," Tor said in a blog entry.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/30/us-privacy-software-attack-idUSKBN0FZ1RZ20140730?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Consider also that you are a very un-American, Frank

I am not un-American.

Quote:

: intolerant of dissent

I am tolerant of dissent...even court it.

I notice that you have problems in that area, though...so maybe you are projecting.

Quote:

and in favor of a strong, overbearing state.

I am not in favor of a strong, overbearing state.

Why are you asserting that I am.

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You should consider moving out of the country.

Why?

Quote:

That would be the honorable thing to do.

Why would it be an honorable thing for me to move out of my country?

What on Earth are you babbling about, Olivier?

Is that what you did?

Quote:

But I leave it to your consideration... ;-)

Aha...so you think you have a choice to do otherwise???

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

You seem to be also in perfect like-mindness with Uzi. That should give you food for thought.

....and yet a broken clock is right at least twice a day.....

Let's not stop there regarding "like-mindedness," O5. The three of us, you, Uzi and I enjoy posting on message boards, and that could be characterize as "like-minded." There are most likely a host of things the three of us share in common; however, I guess you're indirectly suggesting you're against my and Uzi being anti Snowden and his actions----I feel he betrayed his country.

The only time I see Uzi aka Oralloy's posts is when someone quotes him. I daresay, he along with many Americans, are loyal to the US irrespective of Edward Snowden's saying the US government was listening in on Americans' calls. I feel Snowden's actions was a betrayal of the US and he let his country down. Now I understand you possess strong feelings regarding this action by a government, but I don't feel I owe you or anyone else an apology for housing unmistakably powerful feelings regarding my country. I'm merely responding to your statement that Uzi and I share something in common because we might be against Snowden's actions.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

I'm a bit confused. What is it that we are asking for?

Passport controls, fingerprinting, immigration interviews etc etc = all that what is done at US-airports. Because it costs US-taxpayers money, this burden would be shifted to Germany (and the German airports).

If you wait 4 or 5 hours here or in the USA, that doesn't matter at all.
But (until now) a German airport is no US-territory. (Nor is the U.S.A. a member of the EU - that would make it a bit easier.)

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@Moment-in-Time,

Isn't it interesting that the Senate introduced legislation that will control the mass data collection by the NSA - if it was legal.

People fail to see what's legal and illegal based on our Constitution, and believe that our government will never do wrong.

The history of this country says otherwise.

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@Moment-in-Time,

MiT, ci wrote to you and said:

Quote:

Isn't it interesting that the Senate introduced legislation that will control the mass data collection by the NSA - if it was legal.

Most...perhaps ALL of the collection of data (here in this country) by the NSA is legal. The notion that it is illegal...is one conceived of by people who will do anything to spit at this country...including people who live here and are citizens. So the question of whether or not any of the NSA activity was, or is, illegal is really not at question at the moment.

Quote:

People fail to see what's legal and illegal based on our Constitution, and believe that our government will never do wrong.

I seriously doubt most people "believe" our government will never do wrong. This is something ci is making up, because most of his other arguments have fallen flat...or simply are not factual. Better to simply make stuff up...and rail about the fake material.

In any case, I do not think ci has been elected (or appointed) to decide what is legal and illegal per our Constitution. If I remember correctly, that job falls on the Supreme Court...which has yet to rule that any of the NSA conduct is illegal.

But that is a point ci wants to overlook.

Quote:

The history of this country says otherwise.

The history of this country...and probably every country that has ever existed...shows that governments can do things that are reprehensible...and the governments of our country have done plenty.

But if ci thinks our country is particularly disgusting...he certainly has the opportunity and right to move elsewhere.

I doubt we will see that happening, though, because "right here" suits him just fine. And he is free to mouth off about how disgusted he is with this country...and feel relatively safe while doing so.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Open foram Walter. What does annected mean

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@Walter Hinteler,

Either my understand of english is going to hell or your english isent what it should be because the last few posts by you are not understood by me.

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@RABEL222,

Annexed - sorry, we use in German the Latin form (from Latin annectere)

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Either my understand of english is going to hell or your english isent what it should be because the last few posts by you are not understood by me.

Sorry here again. It must be hard to read something written by someone who isn't fluent in English

What does "isent" mean, if you don't mind? And "foram" is the American English version of "forum"?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter wrote,

Quote:

Sorry here again. It must be hard to read something written by someone who isn't fluent in English

What does "isent" mean, if you don't mind? And "foram" is the American English version of "forum"?

I can usually make out your writing but some time your wording goes over my head. Isen't= is not, and forum= foram as rabel222 spells it. Not proper english. I am not a good speller, I spend more time with a dictionary than posting.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

Thanks!

Well, I could write in German or French, if you can understand that better than my English. (Latin and Dutch as well - but then I had to use a dictionary sometimes. And the grammar wouldn't be the best.)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, Your English is fine; I comprehend your posts more than people whose only language is supposed to be English. We all make spelling mistakes, but many make it the main topic of their complaint. Ignore them.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

Secondly, the information, of which Snowden illegally stole, contained not only matters related to privacy issues, but matters related to security for the US and other countries, perhaps even your own.

That seems very speculative to me, and only based on US or UK govt sources. Have they provided any evidence?

Those guys are trying to cover up, mind you, to justify themselves and to character-assassinate Snowden. They are part of the dispute and thus they are not credible.

Quote:

I don't really care about having any moral high ground, the facts are simply the facts.

Your 'facts' may be just lies, propaganda. How do you know?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I am not in favor of a strong, overbearing state.

I think you are. You want the state to check your and my emails and phone calls every day... That's overbearing in my mind, and in the mind of the founding fathers.

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Why would it be an honorable thing for me to move out of my country?

I'm just turning the table on you, Frank. But I do think your statement to CI that the honorable thing for him to do would be to leave the country applies to you much better than to him. He is a better American than you are.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

I feel Snowden's actions was a betrayal of the US and he let his country down.

He is trying to save his (and your) country from a becoming a kind of 'soft dictatorship'. That's honorable. More so than fixating hatred on some "enemy of the state" or another. Have you read Ninety-Eighty Four? Remember the scene where they all congregate in some auditorium to focus their frustrations and hatred onto the enemy of the state Emmanuel Goldstein, whose picture appears on the screen? The very US obsession on the persona of Snowden--his supposed narcissism, betrayal, etc.--is not different. It is about channeling citizens' anger away from the state and onto a scapegoat.

It's one thing to be loyal to one's country, and quite another to support a particular administration. I understand that you support Obama. I used to like him as well and I still prefer him to the alternative... But I suspect that your loyalty would be markedly lower if that scandal had erupted under Bush, as it very well could have. You were able to see the shameful sides of the US government's behavior, back then.

In the future, the likes of W and Cheney may well come back to power... And therefore the REALLY important issue is not, by far, the psychology of Snoweden, nor whether he is a hero or a traitor. The really important question is this: do you want all your emails, telephone calls, hand-written mail, etc. monitored by the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney, knowing that there's not a shred of evidence that this mass surveillance of citizens has ever improved your security, and knowing that they could use this information to destructive ends? Think about this.

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@Olivier5,

Not only that but Bush-Cheney also approved the torture of prisoners - against domestic and international laws.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

....and yet a broken clock is right at least twice a day.....

Feel free to try to point out any place where I'm not right.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I'm a bit confused. What is it that we are asking for?

Passport controls, fingerprinting, immigration interviews etc etc = all that what is done at US-airports. Because it costs US-taxpayers money, this burden would be shifted to Germany (and the German airports).

If you wait 4 or 5 hours here or in the USA, that doesn't matter at all.
But (until now) a German airport is no US-territory. (Nor is the U.S.A. a member of the EU - that would make it a bit easier.)

From what I can tell, we are asking, and are presenting an argument that our proposal is a good idea.

We are not taking Germany's sovereignty. Germany is free to decline our request if they wish.

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Snowdon is a dummy

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