42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 03:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
]I'm responding to something you wrote, Walter.
I was explicitly questioning oralloy
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 03:40 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I thought you realized the forum is open to everyone...and that questions or comments directed to one member sometimes elicit responses from others.
We've joined A2K the same day.
Perhaps I'm to conservative and/or senile that I remember responses to similar posts like "I'm not xxx but ..."

Sorry.
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 03:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
It certainly might not take a long time and the U.S.A. will have annected all or at least most other countries in the world.

It would certainly be a big step forward for justice, but I doubt it will happen.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 03:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I was explicitly questioning oralloy

The nature of messageboards is that people jump in with replies to things asked of other people. I do it all the time.

That said, I urge caution with Frank. He lies incessantly.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 04:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Are we talking about an innocent person avoiding a show trial, or a guilty person avoiding justice?
Please inform yourself about the reasons why someone leaves a country and seeks asylum in another.


My take on this, Walter, is that in the case of Edward Snowden...it appears he left the United States because he stole classified documents from the federal government and released them to unauthorized persons...and wanted to avoid prosecutions for the charges that were sure to be brought against him.

He sought asylum because he did not want to be brought back to the United States to face trial on these charges...that have indeed been brought.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 04:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
]I'm responding to something you wrote, Walter.
I was explicitly questioning oralloy


And so you think that you can dictate that I cannot respond to something because you direct it explicitly to someone else.

You simply do not have the power to do that in this forum, Walter. I do not care whether you mind...or, for that matter, whether Oralloy minds. I will respond to what I want...if I want...when I want.

I do not mean this as an insult to you...I simply am exercising a right I have. You are free, of course, to disregard my comments.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 04:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I thought you realized the forum is open to everyone...and that questions or comments directed to one member sometimes elicit responses from others.
We've joined A2K the same day.
Perhaps I'm to conservative and/or senile that I remember responses to similar posts like "I'm not xxx but ..."

Sorry.


I never realized we joined the same day, Walter.

I will try to put a qualifier in any responses of that sort from this point on.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 04:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

He sought asylum because he did not want to be brought back to the United States to face trial on these charges...that have indeed been brought.


You and I are in perfect like-mindedness, regarding Edward Snowden, Frank Apisa. Snowden reminds me of a sneaky rodent, who having stolen precious Federal Classified documents , scurries away quickly, after having done his foul deed, hoping not to be caught. Seems to me if what the culprit did was so pure and good, he should stay here, face the music, and get his just rewards. I, too, hope he returns to be heard in court before the halls of justice.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 06:22 am
Actually, they should know everything about every possible candidate ... Wink
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 06:51 am
@Frank Apisa,
Consider also that you are a very un-American, Frank: intolerant of dissent and in favor of a strong, overbearing state. You should consider moving out of the country. That would be the honorable thing to do. But I leave it to your consideration... ;-)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 06:54 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
You and I are in perfect like-mindedness, regarding Edward Snowden, Frank Apisa. Snowden reminds me of a sneaky rodent, who having stolen precious Federal Classified documents , scurries away quickly, after having done his foul deed, hoping not to be caught.

You seem to be also in perfect like-mindness with Uzi. That should give you food for thought.
revelette2
 
  2  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 07:24 am
@Olivier5,
Who is uzi?

In any event, he did steal US documents and fled the country. What part of that is not true? If he only spoke out against the US and was seeking asylum to avoid being arrested for it, I could get the political asylum part, but he went further and actually stole unknown amounts of information sensitive to security (not all of it related to invasion of privacy matters) to not only the US, but other countries as well. Those were illegal acts of which he must be held accountable. He has said, he wouldn't mind being held at Gitmo, let him prove it by turning himself in and facing a trial for his actions.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 07:47 am
A real staircase wit (esprit de l’escalier), but without Snowden, he certainly couldn't be big in this business:
Ex-NSA Chief Pitches Banks Costly Advice on Cyber-Attacks

Quote:
For Another Million, I’ll Show You the Back Door We Put in Your Router
Up to $1 million, monthly. That’s the consulting fee former National Security Agency chief Keith Alexander charges banks interested in his advice on cyber security. A small price to pay for the expertise of a guy who has arguably done more than anyone to undermine cyber security in the United States. Said Alexander, who retired from the NSA back in March amid fallout over the agency’s controversial surveillance practices, “It would be devastating if one of our major banks was hit, because they’re so interconnected.”
Source
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 08:09 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
In any event, he did steal US documents and fled the country. What part of that is not true? If he only spoke out against the US and was seeking asylum to avoid being arrested for it, I could get the political asylum part, but he went further and actually stole unknown amounts of information sensitive to security (not all of it related to invasion of privacy matters) to not only the US, but other countries as well. Those were illegal acts of which he must be held accountable. He has said, he wouldn't mind being held at Gitmo, let him prove it by turning himself in and facing a trial for his actions.

Who is holding the NSA accountable, rev? Snowden stole information about the NSA stealing information. It takes a thief to catch a thief.

There's a reason why whistle blowers are often considered heroes: because at great risk to themselves, they help the common man know about malpractice that would otherwise remain hidden forever...

So you guys do your homework: prosecute the NSA, reign them in, defund them, reform your laws and delete all these records you stole from us. Then you can have the moral high ground. Until then, Snowden is morally superior to the US who claims a right to prosecute him. You behave as a dictatorship trying to silence their dissenters.

And BTW, speaking out against the US is no good reason to be arrested, or to flee. That's Frankist thinking. Or maybe, that's foresight? Let see where you society goes.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 08:17 am
@revelette2,
Uzi is oralloy, an old yahoo board ID. Also called "Usato" because he can easily be instrumentalised by his board adversaries, predictable and repulsive as he is ('usato' means 'used' in Italian).
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 08:25 am
The U.S.A. now wants to make their sovereign tasks at German airports - the time to ask Germany to allow this could not be more unfavourable. (Beside that: that is regulated in German federal and EU-law.)
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 08:35 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Who is holding the NSA accountable, rev?

The NSA has done nothing wrong. There is nothing that they need to be held accountable for.


Olivier5 wrote:
There's a reason why whistle blowers are often considered heroes: because at great risk to themselves, they help the common man know about malpractice that would otherwise remain hidden forever...

Snowden uncovered no malpractice, and is therefore not a whistle-blower.

He is however a criminal who helped terrorists kill innocent people.


Olivier5 wrote:
So you guys do your homework: prosecute the NSA,

The NSA has committed no crime.


Olivier5 wrote:
reign them in, defund them, reform your laws and delete all these records you stole from us.

No.


Olivier5 wrote:
Then you can have the moral high ground.

We already have the moral high ground. That is why it is OK for the CIA to simply assassinate Snowden.


Olivier5 wrote:
Until then, Snowden is morally superior to the US who claims a right to prosecute him.

Only ethically bankrupt scum find Snowden morally superior to the US.


Olivier5 wrote:
You behave as a dictatorship trying to silence their dissenters.

Snowden is hardly a mere dissenter. He has grievously damaged our security and helped terrorists kill innocent people.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 08:36 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Usato

If Meredith Kercher hadn't been letting people hump her up her rear (for lack of a more delicate way to put it) in exchange for free drugs, the little whore would still be alive today.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 08:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The U.S.A. now wants to make their sovereign tasks at German airports - the time to ask Germany to allow this could not be more unfavourable. (Beside that: that is regulated in German federal and EU-law.)

I'm a bit confused. What is it that we are asking for?
revelette2
 
  3  
Wed 30 Jul, 2014 09:06 am
@Olivier5,
I regularly seem to make myself misunderstood. I said, if he merely spoke out against the US and was being arrested for it, I could understand his seeking political asylum.

In the first place, most of the surveillance being done by NSA was given authority after 9/11 with few exceptions of where it went beyond that scope of which has already been discussed. Also, there has been some changes being proposed to roll back NSA surveillance powers.

Secondly, the information, of which Snowden illegally stole, contained not only matters related to privacy issues, but matters related to security for the US and other countries, perhaps even your own. It was a reckless action which has helped terrorist in that they have now changed some of their tactics under which they were tracked. Those are simply facts of which you and other Snowden worshippers have refused to acknowledge.

I know he and you guys have said he didn't have any other way to expose what he felt to be wrong doing by NSA (who died and made him the decider?) but he didn't he even try to go another route once he discovered things he disagreed with. There are others in the US who feels the same as he does, he could have discussed what he knew and saw first hand with those people, they could have come up with a way to force a conversation for a debate about spying issues. He did not have to steal information and give it to unauthorized persons untrained in matters related to security so they would not have the skills necessary to know what to reveal and what to hold back.

I don't really care about having any moral high ground, the facts are simply the facts.
 

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