Snowdon is a dummy

From your mouth to God's ear - so the secret NSA-papers obviously are fakes.

So certainly QUANTUM is a fake as well?

a"]Does anyone here actually think that if an American operative were to come forward to a British operative and offer what he/she considers important secret information...that the British operative would refuse the offer?

There are two different things here. I'm not sure what could be happening in Great Britain, Canada, Australia or New Zealand that could pose a threat to the US. or vice versa. I also know that some of the British people I worked with would hint that they suspected the US was actively collecting against our 5 eyes group but if that ever happened I have no knowledge of it. I've never known about any intell collection targeting the 5 eyes countries, but it flirting thru my mind me that perhaps our partners were doing what they thought we were doing. It was really a fleeting thought. The US supports partners both with money and equipment and has foot the bill for partners collection facilities. Countries only do this when it's beneficial for each country.

The second thing is that although the US funds German efforts and in many cases works side by side (as do other partners) Germany is not one of the 5 eyes countries. That doesn't mean that vital info isn't shared, there are agreements in place, and have been in place for decades what each country will share with each other. Great Britain doesn't share every speck of info it collects, it has a classification flag alerting that it's not shareable. Each and every country first obligation is to their citizens. If info is not crucial to another partner, it's not shared.

Having said this, I am aware of many dangerous situations that threatened Canadian or Great Britians citizens abroad and when/if we discovered it, it was passed along in lightening speed to our partners so they could take appropriate actions. The US gets warnings and info from cooperating nations as well. Analysts were seldom privey to the country of origin, because frankly it was not needed to protect our interests. Sometimes it was simple as not tipping off anyone without the appropriate access to be able to figure out that country x had resources most Americans were unaware of. Cooperation at much higher levels went on between 5 eyes and other 2nd and 3rd party countries.

But I can't stress strongly enough that each and every country needs to protect their borders and population. That's why you can't simply log on to a computer and check the status of intelligence efforts, just like you don't get to log into local police departments and find out which officers are working undercover to break up pedophile groups or exactly how drug traffickers are getting their product into the country. Does anybody here think that times and dates for drug deliveries should be published in the paper? Why? Just so if your curious you can mosey over and watch the boats land? That's not going to work very well. Maybe drugs aren't the best example to use, because of the fact they are illegal it generates so much money. I'm trying to outline reasons when officials may have to be circumspect to protect citizens without tipping off those who would do harm.

I'm fairly certain that if the US or our other partners suspected unfriendliness planning an attack on Germany, we would be working together. Germany has done it for us, it's just the way it works. There are compelling reasons to cooperate, a stable world for starters.

So only other nations and criminals are using it for industrial espionage.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

a"]Does anyone here actually think that if an American operative were to come forward to a British operative and offer what he/she considers important secret information...that the British operative would refuse the offer?

There are two different things here. I'm not sure what could be happening in Great Britain, Canada, Australia or New Zealand that could pose a threat to the US. or vice versa. I also know that some of the British people I worked with would hint that they suspected the US was actively collecting against our 5 eyes group but if that ever happened I have no knowledge of it. I've never known about any intell collection targeting the 5 eyes countries, but it flirting thru my mind me that perhaps our partners were doing what they thought we were doing. It was really a fleeting thought. The US supports partners both with money and equipment and has foot the bill for partners collection facilities. Countries only do this when it's beneficial for each country.

The second thing is that although the US funds German efforts and in many cases works side by side (as do other partners) Germany is not one of the 5 eyes countries. That doesn't mean that vital info isn't shared, there are agreements in place, and have been in place for decades what each country will share with each other. Great Britain doesn't share every speck of info it collects, it has a classification flag alerting that it's not shareable. Each and every country first obligation is to their citizens. If info is not crucial to another partner, it's not shared.

Having said this, I am aware of many dangerous situations that threatened Canadian or Great Britians citizens abroad and when/if we discovered it, it was passed along in lightening speed to our partners so they could take appropriate actions. The US gets warnings and info from cooperating nations as well. Analysts were seldom privey to the country of origin, because frankly it was not needed to protect our interests. Sometimes it was simple as not tipping off anyone without the appropriate access to be able to figure out that country x had resources most Americans were unaware of. Cooperation at much higher levels went on between 5 eyes and other 2nd and 3rd party countries.

But I can't stress strongly enough that each and every country needs to protect their borders and population. That's why you can't simply log on to a computer and check the status of intelligence efforts, just like you don't get to log into local police departments and find out which officers are working undercover to break up pedophile groups or exactly how drug traffickers are getting their product into the country. Does anybody here think that times and dates for drug deliveries should be published in the paper? Why? Just so if your curious you can mosey over and watch the boats land? That's not going to work very well. Maybe drugs aren't the best example to use, because of the fact they are illegal it generates so much money. I'm trying to outline reasons when officials may have to be circumspect to protect citizens without tipping off those who would do harm.

I'm fairly certain that if the US or our other partners suspected unfriendliness planning an attack on Germany, we would be working together. Germany has done it for us, it's just the way it works. There are compelling reasons to cooperate, a stable world for starters.

So much about what you think about the USA's nonbreaching contracts and treaties, here the "Five Eyes" and "UKUSA Agreement".

Bottom line, though, is that too much put into this is flat out counter-productive.

Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld decided to trade on fear to engage in phoney wars that have been nothing but opportunities for young people to come home dead or injured.

“Never let a good crisis go to waste”


― Winston Churchill

Frank Apisa wrote:

Bottom line, though, is that too much put into this is flat out counter-productive.

Again, that is your US-American position.
I've never seen a German chancellor or government getting so much support from the opposition parties and the population like in this affair.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks the government of Germany is in league with terrorist, but it is not outside the realms of possibilities that perhaps those who happen to be in a government capacity in some way have some kind of terrorist connections.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks the government of Germany is in league with terrorist

Sometimes these names are thrown out there, I forget what they are reference to. Rather than asking and getting lines like, it has been discussed...I looked up "Quantum" and "Snowden." Having done so, from what I can see real quick like, there with this particular method, industrial spying has not been "proven" by the Snowden leaks, could have just as well have been for security reasons as stated by US. Don't make it right.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks the government of Germany is in league with terrorist, but it is not outside the realms of possibilities that perhaps those who happen to be in a government capacity in some way have some kind of terrorist connections.

Perhaps because from what you have been saying, Germans are extra sensitive on spying and privacy issues, and rather than dealing with it, US intelligence just went around it. Again not excusing it and it looks like once again, we got caught.

@cicerone imposter,
I knew that we did industrial espionage before Snowden. Hell the CIA has been big businesses lap dog since its inception and from the 1890 to the 1930 government did whatever big business told it to do just as they do now.