42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 03:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The Independent wrote:
The intelligence services of the Allied victors, the United States, Britain and France, have hitherto been regarded as “friendly” to Germany. Their diplomatic and information-gathering activities were exempted from surveillance by Berlin’s equivalent of M15 – the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND).


Actually, there have been some "secret agreements" that we weren't allowed to spy on the western allies. [I had had some personal peculiar funny experiences during the cold war about this.] I do wonder, if and how this will/can be resolved and dealt with.


If they were doing their jobs right...they would have been spying on anyone they had the capability to spy on.

Maybe they did not have the capability.

They certainly did not spy on the people who were in Germany planning aspects of the 9/11 attack on America.

Perhaps the American intelligence community had questions about that.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 06:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/oh-by-the-way-germany-spi_b_4184047.html

Walter, could you explain this or is it only U S of A spying that upsets you?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 06:57 pm
@RABEL222,
Winkler talks about how companies (and governments) can stop hacking of their information.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 10:13 pm
@RABEL222,
No, I can't explain that. I haven't heard of Rahab Project either nor can I find any German comments to this report from last year. (I just made a quick search. Will come back to it later.(
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 10:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yeap. Got it.
It has been in Parliament. According to Der Spiegel from June 24, our service BND worked from Frankfurt as an aide for NSA: since 1990, they shared all their SIGNIT data automatically with NSA. Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 10:52 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Actually, the Greens and The Left quizzed the BND quite often about this - as opposition parties, they really are no friends of the BND (and the Left for "other reasons" Wink especially not)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 11:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Since I really wondered ...

This above mentioned "news" was reported here in Germany in 1993 for the first time by Peter Schweizer in his book "Friendly Spies". (Schweizer became later the foreign policy adviser to former Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2014 06:49 am
So the German military espionage-/counter-espionage agency MAD found another US-spy inside the Germany defence ministry.

The Federal General Prosecution and Federal CID started the investigations today ...

... but the recent published Snowden documents re how many Americans are/were under surveillance, whose emails, phone calls were spied etc etc is more interesting for Americans.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2014 08:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
There are "profound and deep disagreements" between Germany and the USA about the relation of safety to the rights of freedom in a democracy, said the German government's spokesman today.
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2014 08:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That's because Germany is a democracy, Walter.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 06:55 am
The first "US-diplomat" (actually the head of NSA in the US-embassy Berlin) is declared persona non grata today.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 07:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The media corrected their first 'breaking news': he's not a persona non grata but only asked to leave Germany. (Which is said to be s a " dramatic step" e.g. by the Washington Post and NYT).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 08:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Now, the US-media report more about this very unusual step among allies but more common with a country like North Korea:
Germany Expels Top U.S. Intelligence Officer
Quote:
BERLIN — Germany announced Thursday that it had ordered the senior American intelligence official in the country expelled, retaliating for apparent American recruitment of spies here.

“The representative of the U.S. intelligence services at the United States Embassy has been asked to leave Germany,” a government spokesman, Steffen Seibert, said in a statement.

“The request occurred against the backdrop of the ongoing investigation by federal prosecutors as well as the questions that were posed months ago about the activities of U.S. intelligence agencies in Germany,” he said. “The government takes the matter very seriously.”

Mr. Seibert said Germany continued to seek “close and trusting” cooperation with its Western partners, “especially the United States.”

Clemens Binninger, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s party, said the move was “a political reaction of the government to the lack of willingness of U.S. authorities to help clear up any questions arising in the past year” in connection with American surveillance of Germany and its leaders.

German officials have been frustrated in their efforts to receive clarification from Washington over allegations of spying that began last year when it was revealed that the National Security Agency had been monitoring the chancellor’s cellphone. Although President Obama has offered assurances that it will no longer happen, revelations last week that a member of the German secret services had been spying for the United States sparked a fresh round of outrage.

On Wednesday, the police searched the Berlin office and apartment of a man suspected of being a spy, federal prosecutors said. They declined to give further information, but the German news media reported that the suspect worked for the Defense Ministry. A ministry spokesman confirmed that it was involved in an investigation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The opinion piece in spiegel-international:
Germany's Choice: Will It Be America or Russia?
Quote:
[...]
Is Germany Caught Between East and West?

Of course, this isn't really what the chancellor wants. She would prefer to see the Germans remain firmly rooted in the Western alliance and loyal to their American partners. But she has also noticed how much anti-American sentiment the NSA scandal has stirred up among Germans. The Körber Foundation recently commissioned a study on Germans' attitudes toward German foreign policy. With which country should Germany cooperate in the future, respondents were asked? In a near-tie between East and West, close to 56 percent named the United States while 53 percent named Russia.

Therein lies the deeper tension. On the one hand, Germans are disappointed by the Americans and their unceasing surveillance activities. At the same time, they have demonstrated a surprising level of sympathy for the Russians and their president, Vladimir Putin, in the Ukraine crisis. This raises the fundamental question of Germany's national identity. In the long run, Germans will have to decide which side they prefer.

In the 25 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, the issue had become less of a priority because the contrast between East and West, and the polarization between the United States and Russia, seemed to have been eliminated. Germany didn't have to choose sides because there was no real dividing line. But the Ukraine crisis and the NSA scandal have put an end to this comfortable phase, and now that antagonism between the West and Russia has erupted once again, Germany can no longer avoid the question of which side it supports.

According to a SPIEGEL poll, 57 percent of Germans feel that their country should become more independent of the United States when it comes to foreign policy. Uncomfortable questions are also being raised, including whether Berlin's close relationship with the West was merely a transitional phenomenon.

Embassies Reflect a Nation's Image

If embassy buildings are meant to project the psyche of a nation, the US Embassy in Berlin is an effective symbol. The exterior consists of an inviting light-colored sandstone structure with an American flag flying above the entrance's curved glass roof. At second glance, however, the building at Pariser Platz 2 also resembles a fortress protected by barriers, surveillance cameras and bullet-proof glass.

Ambassador Emerson's office is on the fifth floor. Visitors are required to leave their mobile phones in the reception area downstairs and must then pass through three security checkpoints. Even Emerson's press secretary has to deposit her cell phone in a small wooden box before entering the ambassador's floor. His office is secured with a steel door, and the glass windows looking out on Tiergarten Park and Brandenburg Gate are so thick that they would probably withstand a nuclear strike.

Emerson's ebullience stands in stark contrast to the security paranoia surrounding him. He is a jovial former attorney and investment banker from Chicago, who raised millions of dollars for Obama's election campaigns and now, at the end of his career, has been given an attractive ambassadorship in Europe. Emerson, like many of his predecessors, hardly speaks a word of German.

For many years, this wasn't an issue. American ambassadors in the past had no need to vie for the affections of Germans, because it was a matter of course. Konrad Adenauer, the country's first postwar chancellor, opted for the young republic's integration into the West, which culminated in West Germany's accession to NATO in 1955.

As a result of Adenauer's decision, the question of which side Germany belonged to remained off the table for decades. Even after German reunification in 1990, which then US President George Bush passionately supported, the German-American partnership was not fundamentally questioned.
[...]
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The opinion piece in spiegel-international:
Germany's Choice: Will It Be America or Russia?
Quote:
[...]
Is Germany Caught Between East and West?

Of course, this isn't really what the chancellor wants. She would prefer to see the Germans remain firmly rooted in the Western alliance and loyal to their American partners. But she has also noticed how much anti-American sentiment the NSA scandal has stirred up among Germans. The Körber Foundation recently commissioned a study on Germans' attitudes toward German foreign policy. With which country should Germany cooperate in the future, respondents were asked? In a near-tie between East and West, close to 56 percent named the United States while 53 percent named Russia.

Therein lies the deeper tension. On the one hand, Germans are disappointed by the Americans and their unceasing surveillance activities. At the same time, they have demonstrated a surprising level of sympathy for the Russians and their president, Vladimir Putin, in the Ukraine crisis. This raises the fundamental question of Germany's national identity. In the long run, Germans will have to decide which side they prefer.

In the 25 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, the issue had become less of a priority because the contrast between East and West, and the polarization between the United States and Russia, seemed to have been eliminated. Germany didn't have to choose sides because there was no real dividing line. But the Ukraine crisis and the NSA scandal have put an end to this comfortable phase, and now that antagonism between the West and Russia has erupted once again, Germany can no longer avoid the question of which side it supports.

According to a SPIEGEL poll, 57 percent of Germans feel that their country should become more independent of the United States when it comes to foreign policy. Uncomfortable questions are also being raised, including whether Berlin's close relationship with the West was merely a transitional phenomenon.

Embassies Reflect a Nation's Image

If embassy buildings are meant to project the psyche of a nation, the US Embassy in Berlin is an effective symbol. The exterior consists of an inviting light-colored sandstone structure with an American flag flying above the entrance's curved glass roof. At second glance, however, the building at Pariser Platz 2 also resembles a fortress protected by barriers, surveillance cameras and bullet-proof glass.

Ambassador Emerson's office is on the fifth floor. Visitors are required to leave their mobile phones in the reception area downstairs and must then pass through three security checkpoints. Even Emerson's press secretary has to deposit her cell phone in a small wooden box before entering the ambassador's floor. His office is secured with a steel door, and the glass windows looking out on Tiergarten Park and Brandenburg Gate are so thick that they would probably withstand a nuclear strike.

Emerson's ebullience stands in stark contrast to the security paranoia surrounding him. He is a jovial former attorney and investment banker from Chicago, who raised millions of dollars for Obama's election campaigns and now, at the end of his career, has been given an attractive ambassadorship in Europe. Emerson, like many of his predecessors, hardly speaks a word of German.

For many years, this wasn't an issue. American ambassadors in the past had no need to vie for the affections of Germans, because it was a matter of course. Konrad Adenauer, the country's first postwar chancellor, opted for the young republic's integration into the West, which culminated in West Germany's accession to NATO in 1955.

As a result of Adenauer's decision, the question of which side Germany belonged to remained off the table for decades. Even after German reunification in 1990, which then US President George Bush passionately supported, the German-American partnership was not fundamentally questioned.
[...]



If all that is true, it sounds to me that the US ought to increase its spying on Germany.

Never know...Germany has been a part of the instigation of two wars during the last century that killed over 60,000,000 people.

Makes sense to keep an eye on them.
JTT
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
Jesus, you are a hypocrite, Frank.

----------------



The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.

http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:33 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Never know...Germany has been a part of the instigation of two wars during the last century that killed over 60,000,000 people.
Just to give you some more information, Mr. Apisa:
Germany was heavily involved the war of 1870/71.
Before that, many German countries were involved in many more wars.

To get rid of it - why not just use us as nuclear training field? That would solve at least all the fear you have about us hurting your safety feelings - which actually must be a state religion stronger than that of Vatican State.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Never know...Germany has been a part of the instigation of two wars during the last century that killed over 60,000,000 people.
Just to give you some more information, Mr. Apisa:
Germany was heavily involved the war of 1870/71.
Before that, many German countries were involved in many more wars.

To get rid of it - why not just use us as nuclear training field? That would solve at least all the fear you have about us hurting your safety feelings - which actually must be a state religion stronger than that of Vatican State.


I do not want to get rid of it, Walter...I want Germany to continue to be an important ally of ours. I'd much prefer that cooler heads than yours...and some of these people you bring to this thread...prevail in the issue currently at hand.

To suppose that checking Germany out is beyond comprehension...that Germany is above suspicion...is a bit much.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:39 am
@Frank Apisa,
Oh...you can go back to calling me Frank as you have for a decade now, Walter. The "Mr. Apisa" is also over the top.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jul, 2014 11:40 am
@Frank Apisa,
You wrote,
Quote:
I'd much prefer that cooler heads than yours..


Get off your ******* high horse. You might fall and break our neck, you dumb ass.
 

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