Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The problem is Snowden providing NSA secrets to al-Qa'ida.

You've got a source for that

For the fact that al-Qa'ida has access to information that is published all over the world?

Walter Hinteler wrote:

or is it just your usual speculation?

Feel free to try to point out even one fact that I am wrong about.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The problem is Snowden providing NSA secrets to al-Qa'ida.

You've got a source for that

For the fact that al-Qa'ida has access to information that is published all over the world?

Okay. So a secret is just and only a secret if al-Qa'ida can't have access to it?
Or why is only this a problem and not that the information is known to the rest of the world (including to Merkel and German-citizens) as well?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Or why is only this a problem and not that the information is known to the rest of the world (including to Merkel and German-citizens) as well?

Germany is not trying to conquer the entire world, commit genocide against all non-Muslims, abolish freedom and democracy, and make it a capital offense to teach a woman to read.

I sometimes question whether Germany truly acts as a friend, but I've never worried about you guys coming to chop off my head.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

but rather the knowledge of the specific tactics that the NSA was using to listen, allowing the terrorists to thwart those specific tactics.

Bullshit as the tactic released deal with how they was doing worthless massive spying and have little or nothing about target spying on them.

Quote:

The American people also knew beforehand that the NSA listened to everything.

Wrong as we did not know that NSA was breaking it own charter and the constitution to do bulk spying on US citizens before Snowden reveal that little secret.

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At any rate, this huge setback we've just experienced in the War on Terror justifies Snowden getting the death penalty when he's convicted.

Snowden should get a medal as he warn us all of a danger to our freedoms and way of life greater by far then all the terrorists in the middle east as in an out of control intelligence community that is using the constitution as toilet paper.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

abolish freedom and democracy,

The people in control of the US government at the moment is trying to do that by shitting on the very Constitution that they took an oath to defend.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Germany is not trying to conquer the entire world, commit genocide against all non-Muslims, abolish freedom and democracy, and make it a capital offense to teach a woman to read.

Well, your government and/or the NSA seem to have different ideas.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

By the way Oralloy how long do you think this nation can be free if the intelligence services have the means to blackmail a large percents of our total elected office holders?

Hoover with far less information in his secret file cabinets then are currently on the hard drives of the NSA got Congressmen and Presidents to bow to his wishes in fear of what he might release concerning them.

Obama before he took office was all for reining in the intelligence services but now he is one of their biggest supporters.

Is this an independent change of heart or did he get a visit similar to the visit that Hoover pay on Robert Kennedy the then US Attorney General where he expressed concerns about some of President Kennedy choices of mistresses and the need to keep them secret.

So with such an out of control intelligence service how can we know who is pulling the strings?

Not a good picture as far as America being a free nation in the future now is it?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Well, your government and/or the NSA seem to have different ideas.

Hell if the US intelligence services do not trust their own citizens and feel a need to do massive spying on us why would anyone expect them to trust the German people or the German state?

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Is this an independent change of heart or did he get a visit similar to the visit that Hoover pay on Robert Kennedy the then US Attorney General where he expressed concerns about some of President Kennedy choices of mistresses and the need to keep them secret.

But that is due to the American attitude to rumpy-pumpy Bill.

There was a story many years ago of a head of state from a S.E.Asian country, I forget which, visiting Moscow. The KGB provided him with a couple of prostitutes and secretly filmed the event.

When he got back home he was sent a copy of the video and invited to do what Moscow wanted. He replied with a request for a thousand copies so that he could distribute them in high circles to show what a stud he was.

Hoover could have no power over anybody like that.

That people with a colourful sex life are disqualified from high office seems to me to run the risk of excluding people of talent and reducing the pool from which office holders are chosen to a small number of goodie-goodies who are sure to be henpecked.

From an evolutionist point of the view the situation is ridiculous because evolution defines success as having multiple females covered and in no other way. In fact, artificial birth control is anti-evolution.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Your constant and relentless bad-mouthing of the United States is noted.

Sounds to me like you would rather live somewhere else. If I did, I guarantee I would have the balls to move somewhere else.

Sorry dear heart...

Once again...you ought really be looking elsewhere for what you apparently need. And perhaps you ought tell your wife...although considering that she carries a gun, you might want to be careful with that part.

Quote:

...but having contempt for the current leadership of the country due to their actions once in power does not say how I feel about my nation.

Actually it does. It tells how you feel about it today.

You hold your nation in contempt. Nothing wrong with that...I was merely telling you that I note the depth of the contempt.

Quote:

Clapper, Holder or even Obama is not the US and "bad-mouthing" them is not the same as "bad-mouthing" the US.

Yeah...but you do hold the US in contempt, Bill. You constantly bad-mouth it. You hate it. Some day you might be able to see that.

Quote:

Too bad you seems not to be able to understand that the nation is not the same as the current clowns that had gotten themselves into positions of power.

I have no problem with that at all...and the fact that you cannot understand that I DO understand that is your problem.

But I also can see contempt when I see it...and you are showing massive amounts of contempt and loathing for the US.

Wouldn't it be easier for you to make a move like your hero Snowden and go to China or Russia where you could feel more comfortable?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Footnote Frank as you seems to like the idea of declaring those US citizens who dare to disagree with the current US government and it actions should leave the country so you should be delight that such a movement is already beginning in a very small way.

US citizens are setting up internet security companies and groups off the US shore to prevent being force to placed back doors into their software.or services.by way of secret national security letters.

Here is an interesting and sad statement of why the new truecrypt working group is setting up shop in Switzerland not the US.

Kind of reminding me of how top level scientists up to Einstein departed Germany in the 1930s.

Quote:

Truecrypt.ch

Located in Switzerland

If there have been legal problems with the US, the independent hosting in Switzerland will guarantee no interruption due to legal threats.

Actually I do not think that people who disagree with government should leave the country. But you seem to loathe the US so much...and hold it in such contempt...I was merely reminding you that the option of doing what your hero, Edward Snowden, did is open to you also.

Go to China or Russia if you hate it here so.

I certainly would oppose any laws that would force that on you...but I thought perhaps that option had not occurred to you. And you seem so sad here...it was just a kindness on my part to offer the option.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
abolish freedom and democracy,

The people in control of the US government at the moment is trying to do that by shitting on the very Constitution that they took an oath to defend.

WE are the people in charge of the US government (as we always have been). Once again, you are showing contempt and hatred for the US. You really ought to give your other options some consideration.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Yeah...but you do hold the US in contempt, Bill. You constantly bad-mouth it. You hate it. Some day you might be able to see that.

Once more my little silly friend I how Holder, Clapper and Obama in contempt not the nation and not the founding fathers who created a framework [constitution] for a long and lasting nation with the most freedoms that given human nature seem possible to have.

Oh, I also hold in great contempt people like you Frank that for some strange reason would like to sell this nation and what it had stood for since it birth for a nice "safe" police state.

It is also interesting that you feel so very free to tell fellow citizens if they do not care for the actions of the current people in power they should just leave you and people like you to enjoy a police state in the process of being born.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Yeah...but you do hold the US in contempt, Bill. You constantly bad-mouth it. You hate it. Some day you might be able to see that.

Once more my little silly friend...

I am neither "silly"...nor your friend, Bill. Why don't you grow up and simply use Frank when addressing me. Or don't bother with a form of address if you think it beneath you.

Quote:

I how Holder, Clapper and Obama in contempt not the nation and not the founding fathers who created a framework [constitution] for a long and lasting nation with the most freedoms that given human nature seem possible to have.

I'm sure you mean "hold" not "how." The structure of this paragraph is abysmal...but the point you apparently were trying to make is strained, even allowing for that.

You show contempt and scorn for the nation as it now stands...and I stand by my comments that say that.

Don't be ashamed of it, Bill. You can hate and scorn the US...and still live here. I just thought, since you have such hatred for the country, that you thought you were confined here.

You aren't...and are free to join your hero, Edward Snowden, in Russia if you choose.

Quote:

Oh, I also hold in great contempt people like you Frank that for some strange reason would like to sell this nation and what it had stood for since it birth for a nice "safe" police state.

I don't think police states are any safer than any other kind of state. You are stretching way past your intellectual capabilities here, Bill...in an attempt to seem reasonable. Don't bother with that! Just work on how you are going to deal with the fact that you detest the country in which you reside.

Quote:

It is also interesting that you feel so very free to tell fellow citizens if they do not care for the actions of the current people in power they should just leave you and people like you to enjoy a police state in the process of being born.

Once again...I am simply mentioning some of the options you have. You seem so worked up...and filled with rage and hatred for the US, that I thought you might have overlooked them.

I certainly do not want you to do that!

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

WE are the people in charge of the US government (as we always have been). Once again, you are showing contempt and hatred for the US. You really ought to give your other options some consideration.

Oh, and how is that going to work Frank with a government full of people with no respect for the constitution in power and an out of control intelligence service with the ability to blackmail most of our leadership at their whim?

A government already claiming extra legal powers such as the power to place citizens on a do not fly list without any right to even find out the reasons for being on such a list.

By doing so have even interfere with the right of citizens to return home to be with their families from abroad.

Citizens with no criminal record and who in many cases had serve their nation in the military with honor.

But Frank you are getting what you wish for as far as some of our very best and brightest are leaving the country to be able to work in the fields of internet/computer security without fear of secret government orders.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

But Frank you are getting what you wish for as far as some of our very best and brightest are leaving the country to be able to work in the fields of internet/computer security without fear of secret government orders.

You know what they say about the grass is always greener on the other side, I imagine Snowden found that out the hard way.

However, I have to agree that most of these things which seems to have escalated since the "war on terror" needs a second look and a third....I would like to see it happen.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

I don't think you would have got a second look without Eddie. The ship was in full sail before he intervened.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Oh pooh, most of these things were very well known, it just started up the conversation again for a short while among folks.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Oh pooh, most of these things were very well known, it just started up the conversation again for a short while among folks.

Well, in this case
a) I seem to have missed that,
b) I don't understand why it has been published again,
c) I can't understand the uproar outside the USA.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

I was speaking of the fact that US keeps tabs through communications (there was a whole scandal on it in 2007 about the previous administration not issuing warrants or going through the courts which was changed, true they use a secret court but that court is hardly new), not the methods and the scope and I also was not speaking of your pet peeve which is US spying on allies. Also, the no fly lists and other issues Bill spoke were all well known and I don't think even revealed by Snowden which is what I was responding to and the post spendius responded to. Snowden just opened up the whole conversation about the data storing (which was sort of new)and then all these other issues which were well known.

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Snowdon is a dummy

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