42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 03:13 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
CAN YOU POINT TO ANY POSTING WHERE YOU ACKNOWLEDGED LESS THAN FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED?


LOL only a make believe god had full knowledge on any subject, in fact in this very thread I classified myself as an advance hobbyist in the area of computer/network security far from a "real" expert let alone a nonexistent all knowing expert.

If there was an expert on this website on security such as Phil Zimmermann the creator of PGP then his opinions would carry far more weight then mine.




ON ANY POINT...NOT JUST ON TECHNOLOGY. Where have you ever done it?

Where have you ever posted that you made a mistake?

I have.

Yet you suggested with that childish "mirror, mirror on the wall" that I was the most arrogance (sic) person in the forum.

Wake up, Bill.

For you to talk about me being arrogant is an absurdity. You can barely put together a coherent thought, yet you have never acknowledged any deficiencies that I can remember.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 04:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Yet you suggested with that childish "mirror, mirror on the wall" that I was the most arrogance (sic) person in the forum.


You are without question arrogance as with zero knowledge of the details of the technology and the financial underpinning of the internet you had claims that your opinions should carry as must weight as not only the CEOs of some of the major internet firms but the very people who in many cases created those hundreds of billions dollars firms from nothing at all starting in such locations as college dorm rooms.

As I said before mirror mirror on the wall when you dare to charge others with being arrogance.
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 05:41 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
You are also going to retaliate against American firms that are also buying foreign hardware and software for the same reason as foreign firms or are you going to made it illegal not to buy non US government backdoor hardware and software for US firms?

I don't think that is going to be much of a problem. Buying US software might mean that the NSA pokes their nose in for a brief glance once in a while to see if there are any terrorists about. Buying foreign software means France and China stealing all your industrial secrets and handing them over to your competitors.

The only reason a company will choose to avoid American software will be if they are complicit in a trade war against us.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 05:43 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Having back doors in your software and your hardware so the US government can at it whim spy on your firm in secret is one hell of a large concern for not only foreign but also American firms.

Only if they are terrorists or they work for a government.


BillRM wrote:
No firm is going to welcome such extra legal spying

The spying is perfectly legal.


BillRM wrote:
and few if any is going to buy into the idea that such spying is only focus on some terrorist threats as in the spying we now know was done in trade negotiations.

The fact that governments spy on other governments is no more a threat to corporations than the fact that governments try to hunt down terrorists.

The threat to corporations is having France and China plunder all their industrial secrets and hand them over to rival industries.


BillRM wrote:
Nor is there any guarantee that once back doors are in your software and hardware other actors other then the US intelligent community will not find them and then made use of those back doors.

France and China are much more likely to find the back doors that they've installed themselves, in non-American software.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 05:45 am
@JLO1988,
JLO1988 wrote:
Manning plead guilty,

Yes. And?


JLO1988 wrote:
you are an ass clown,

Childish name-calling is no substitute for a reasoned argument.


JLO1988 wrote:
don't quote me.

Request denied.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 05:46 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Obama could be brought down by this... I bet you he IS shitting in his pants.

You must be joking. This is not going to harm Obama's presidency in any way whatsoever.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 05:47 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
For once you will be right as in the near future as the net will be going dark and therefore protecting everyone but for now it is only possible for the small percent of the population who is in the know to take measures to protect themselves from government spying.

That mean that unconstitutional spying on the other 99.99 percent of the population that is currently being done should not be of concerns by your strange strange logic?

The spying is not unconstitutional. Nor is it illegal.
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 06:11 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
A leader who is laughing at the undermining of a 70 years old alliance is not a leader, but a fool.

When supposed allies are eager to stick a knife in your back at the first opportunity, perhaps it is time for the alliance to crumble away.

Then a new alliance can be formed -- one based on people who are actually friends with each other.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 06:14 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
If Obama is not a fool, then he is not laughing at this, for only a fool would.

I won't make a bet at this stage on whether or not he is a fool, and is laughing or not, primarily because that's child talk. But I don't think he realizes the seriousness of the situation -- the amount of poison that this story is injecting in NATO; the risks for the US democracy; the potential damage to US tech firms; the loss of moral ground and ridicule that the US is heaping on itself.

The poison in NATO is caused by false allies looking to stab us in the back.

US democracy is not facing any risk whatsoever.

The damage to tech firms will be limited if we take strong action against nations that attempt a trade war against us.

The fact that fake allies are trying to stab us in the back does not mean we are ceding any moral ground. It is possible though that you are correct about those fake allies ridiculing us (as they attempt to stab us in the back). The answer is to replace NATO with a new alliance where those fake allies do not receive the benefits of membership.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 06:29 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The spying is not unconstitutional. Nor is it illegal.


Of course not even those the rubber stamp secret court had found elements of the programs unconstitutional and more open Federal courts had found other elements unconstitutional that is beside the point in your strange world view.

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[1]

BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 06:30 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
NATO with a new alliance where those fake allies do not receive the benefits of membership.


The UK and the US against the rest of the world?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 08:23 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Yet you suggested with that childish "mirror, mirror on the wall" that I was the most arrogance (sic) person in the forum.


You are without question arrogance as with zero knowledge of the details of the technology and the financial underpinning of the internet you had claims that your opinions should carry as must weight as not only the CEOs of some of the major internet firms but the very people who in many cases created those hundreds of billions dollars firms from nothing at all starting in such locations as college dorm rooms.

As I said before mirror mirror on the wall when you dare to charge others with being arrogance.


You are unable to even comprehend what is being discussed here, Bill. Your arguments are abysmal...and your ability to present them is even worse.

I know I am not technically proficient...and I have acknowledged that. That is not a mark of arrogance...quite the opposite.

But you honestly do not have the savvy to understand that.

Continue to wallow and be happy in what you think is proficiency. I will continue to laugh at you.
Wink
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 08:41 am
@oralloy,
You do know that the "North Atlantic Treaty Organisation" is founded through a treaty, don't you?
And that the Treaty of Brussels, signed on 17 March 1948 by Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, and the United Kingdom, is the precursor to the NATO agreement?
And that the USA is a founding member like Canada and 10 European countries and now one member among 27 others?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 08:54 am
@BillRM,
Could you provide a source in which other courts ruled elements of the NSA program was unconstitutional? It makes it hard to respond to people when they just give vague reference to facts without names or sources.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 08:59 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Could you provide a source in which other courts ruled elements of the NSA program was unconstitutional? It makes it hard to respond to people when they just give vague reference to facts without names or sources.


Revelette...I understand your desire for something more concrete (which I doubt you will get)...but do you actually understand what Bill was trying (unsuccessfully) to say.

Here is the sentence (for want of a better word):


Of course not even those the rubber stamp secret court had found elements of the programs unconstitutional and more open Federal courts had found other elements unconstitutional that is beside the point in your strange world view.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 09:14 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Could you provide a source in which other courts ruled elements of the NSA program was unconstitutional? It makes it hard to respond to people when they just give vague reference to facts without names or sources.


This had been brought up early in this thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/justice/nsa-surveillance-court-ruling/

Quote:
A federal judge said Monday that he believes the government's once-secret collection of domestic phone records is unconstitutional, setting up likely appeals and further challenges to the data mining revealed by classified leaker Edward Snowden.

U.S. District Judge Richard Leon said the National Security Agency's bulk collection of metadata -- phone records of the time and numbers called without any disclosure of content -- apparently violates privacy rights.

His preliminary ruling favored five plaintiffs challenging the practice, but Leon limited the decision only to their cases.

"I cannot imagine a more 'indiscriminate' and 'arbitrary invasion' than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval," said Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush. "Surely, such a program infringes on 'that degree of privacy' that the Founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment."
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 09:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
Poor Frank willing to sell the bill of rights with special note of the right to privacy for the claimed needs to deal with a few middle east terrorists.

Not even understanding that the rest of the world is not going to be buying into the massive spying on them by the US government, even if somehow the American people can be sold that bills of goods/bullshit.

The net will go dark as a results see the projects already well underway and American firms will be greatly harm as not even Americans will trust Americans firms to not allowed almost random access to their data by the US government.

https://www.resetthenet.org/

Quote:

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/end-to-end/

Google is taking another step towards an internet that can stand up to snooping from the NSA.

Today, the company released the source code for a new web browser plugin that encrypts your email messages before they’re sent across the net. Dubbed End-to-End, the plugin aims to prevent interlopers from reading messages even if they gain access to the computer servers that drive your web email service of choice. So, if you’re using Googles’s Gmail, it could thwart the NSA and other snoopers even if they have access to Google’s network.

The plugin isn’t yet available to the general public. The idea is for security researchers to heavily test the code before Google releases a completed version of the plugin that’s available to everyone. “The End-To-End team takes its responsibility to provide solid crypto very seriously, and we don’t want at-risk groups that may not be technically sophisticated–journalists, human-rights workers, et al–to rely on End-To-End until we feel it’s ready,” the company said in releasing the code. “Prematurely making End-To-End available could have very serious real world ramifications.”

Several other companies and independent open source projects are working on similar encryption tools, but this one has added heft because Google is behind it. Once it’s finished, End-to-End could be a big step forward for email privacy, but there are some big limitations, and critics say the tool could end up doing more harm than good.

A Google First
As Venture Beat first reported in April, the plugin will be based on the venerable encryption standard PGP, short for Pretty Good Privacy. Specifically, it will be based on OpenPGP, the same standard used by other open source implementations of PGP, such as GPG.

Using PGP, all messages are scrambled in such a way that, in theory, only the sender and intended recipient can open them. That means that even if the NSA intercepts your PGP encrypted messages from Google’s servers, they won’t be able to read it without the use your private key.

It’s already possible to use PGP with Gmail and other webmail services through a third-party plugin called Mailvelope, and Samsung’s Android phones have long included PGP encryption as an option with its stock email program. But this the first time Google has officially supported encrypting email.

The Limitations
This makes for good security, but it can also be inconvenient. For example, the End-to-End plugin will store your private keys on your local machine. That means if you want to use someone’s else’s computer, or a public machine, you’ll either need to import your keys or simply not use the service. Also, the keys will not be backed up or store on Google servers, according to the company’s online FAQ. That means that if you lose your key, or forget your passphrase, it’s gone forever.

What’s more, if you use End-to-End, any emails you encrypt won’t be instantly searchable. That’s a big problem with encryption in general. Though a new technique called homomorphic encryption could eventually solve this problem, it’s not something that’s built into OpenPGP today.

Plus, Google won’t be able to scan encrypted email messages in order to target advertising. Security expert Eleanor Saitta believes this may lead to Google to discourage most users from actively using encryption. She worries that the End-to-End may simply be a publicity stunt designed to keep Google’s engineers happy while scoring points with privacy advocates.

She also points out Google has history of abandoning projects that don’t make the company money, such as iGoogle and Google Reader. If activists come to rely on Google’s encryption tools, but those tools are discontinued, they will be left without crucial protections. “People live and die by the long-term success and failure of communication platforms — I mean that in a very literal sense,” she says. “You cannot put people in a position where they are depending on a software platform for life safety issues and then simply terminate it.”

The Competition
Her other worry is that the existence of Google’s own plugin may discourage people from building other alternatives, or make it harder for open source encryption projects to raise funds. For example, Mailpile raised over $100,000 last year to build a new open source email client that works with any email provider, including Gmail, and has PGP encryption baked in from the beginning. But it will need more funding eventually, and Saitta worries that potential backers may not be as motivated to contribute.

What’s more, she says, we need more than just this kind of message encryption. Although it’s possible to encrypt the contents of an email, it’s not possible to conceal who you’ve been sending email to or who you’ve received email from. That has led to the creation of many alternative messaging schemes, such as the chat encryption system Off The Record. Saitta has been working on another email alternative called Briar which does away with intermediary servers altogether, passing encrypted messages directly from device to device. Meanwhile, PGP creator Phil Zimmermann has teamed up with Ladar Levison of Lavabit–the email service Edward Snowden used–and other security researchers to create a new email protocol called Darkmail, but haven’t yet released any code publicly.

In short, there’s nothing that can replace email quite yet, and using email privately, for now, means using encryption. Google is a unique position to make it easier for people to use PGP, but we need more than just encrypted email if we want to keep our communications private. We also need clients like Mailpile and Thunderbird, as well as new ideas like Briar and Darkmail. And we still need people fighting for political change to stop the NSA and other government agencies to stop spying on civilians. Ultimately, we need as many people as possible working to protect our privacy. The new Google encryption is a welcome addition to the tool kit, and let’s hope there are more to come.

Share on Facebook339


BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 09:18 am
@revelette2,
Lord you do not know how to used google???????????

I had given such links over and over on this thread and it get damn old after a while.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 09:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Revelette...I understand your desire for something more concrete (which I doubt you will get)...but do you actually understand what Bill was trying (unsuccessfully) to say.


Not really, I just picked up on the words other court rulings. I don't really keep with it all, so I was not aware of any other rulings.

From what I gather, the problem came about because of "bundling."

NSA reveals more secrets after court order


Quote:
The problem, according to the officials, was that the top secret Internet-sweeping operation, which was targeting metadata contained in the emails of foreign users, was also amassing thousands of emails that were bundled up with the targeted materials. Because many web mail services use such bundled transmissions, the official said, it was impossible to collect the targeted materials without also sweeping up data from innocent domestic U.S. users.

Officials said that when they realized they had an American communication, the communication was destroyed. But it was not clear how they determined to whom an email belonged and whether any NSA analyst had actually read the content of the email. The officials said the bulk of the information was never accessed or analyzed.

As soon as the extent of the problem became clear, the officials said, the Obama administration provided classified briefings to both Senate and House intelligence committees within days. At the same time, officials also informed the FISA court, which later issued the three 2011 rulings released Wednesday — with sections blacked out — as part of the government's latest disclosure of documents.

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 10 Jun, 2014 09:25 am
@InfraBlue,
Blame my poor memory, my bad. I remembered the secret court rulings, but not the one you was speaking of.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Snowdon is a dummy
  3. » Page 386
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 01/12/2025 at 09:11:39