42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 03:23 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
Snowden and Bergdahl are two of the sanest, most important Americans of our times.

Don't be silly.


McTag wrote:
They should be feted and praised. And awarded medals and accolades.

Snowden should be placed inside a thermobaric fireball.

The other guy, meh. Sounds like he had no business ever being part of a military in the first place.


McTag wrote:
They tell the truth.

Snowden has been spewing lies lately.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 03:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Hey, bird brain, Snowden was already charged with espionage. That means the penalty is death. You and some others speak of a "fair trial."

How dumb are you?

Until the government promises to drop that charge and offer Snowden a 'fair trial,' there's no guarantee he'll get one. capish? Naw, you're brain dead.


I am one of those "dumb people", ci.

I think he can get a fair trial...on what he was actually charged with.

He was charged with stealing classified government documents...and releasing those documents to unauthorized people.

He should be tried on those charges...and I am sure he can get a fair trial on those charges.

He may be able to offer a defense that exonerates him from the charges. If he does...he will go free. If convicted, he will serve a prison term.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 03:28 am
@JLO1988,
JLO1988 wrote:

Sorry, I was at work before, remember what that is? Anyways, I'm stoned now, let me try again.

Here is my argument in a simplistic since that even a retired man that can no longer find weed from anywhere except the government can probably understand.


That sentence sounds like one composed by someone stoned.

Try re-writing it in coherent form.



Quote:
How is Snowden a risk to society by not putting in jail if he no longer has any national security clearance?


What does that have to do with what we were discussing?



Quote:
If tabs are kept on him for the rest of his life, say for example (safe to assume that the NSA would already be doing this with or without consent). How is he a risk to the safety of you or I? Same with Chelsea Manning? Who does it protect by locking them up?


What does that have to do with what we were discussing?

Quote:
And maybe you can clear up what you do not understand about my "sending a message" statements for yourself by answering this question, Frank. What message does it send locking someone up who is fighting against government overreach to protect the freedoms of the American public? How does it look to God when the nation that will fight to free a people from an unruly dictator is willing to imprison a person who poses no threat to the common man?


What does any of that have to do with what we were discussing?

Quote:
Go ahead, tell me again what is it that is so incoherent about what I'm saying or sit down because you know in your heart you hate your stance (punch line is you're probably already sitting down).

May God Bless You All


God who?
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 05:00 am
@McTag,
Quote:
Snowden and Bergdahl are two of the sanest, most important Americans of our times.

They should be feted and praised. And awarded medals and accolades. They tell the truth.


Without a doubt I understand why the majority of posters revere Snowden, but Bergdahl? What did he do that was exceptional? He appeared confused after joining the military and actually seeing the face of war, but his actions might have put his entire platoon at risk by his walking away and subsequence capture by the Taliban who could very well have strapped bombs on him then forcing Bergdahl back to his camp.

Personally, I do not believe Snowden or Bergdahl deserve honors; anytime you steal your own government's classified documents and distribute such to other hands to be dissimilated at their judgement, you have helped the enemy of your country.

Putin in particular is made to look good by embarrassing the US. The Russian leader has cautioned Snowden to not do anything to harm the US while being given asylum in Russia....how big of Putin!...the damage has already been done!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 05:21 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Indeed. Snowden "helped the enemy of your country" and thus the prosecution of this enemy country can now try to act according to our laws.

(This is different to what happened some years ago, when Germany issued warrants for 13 unidentified CIA agents suspected of kidnapping a German terrorism suspect: a) the warrants were issued by a judge [prosecution already had done their job], b) here it is spying on the German chancellor from German soil)
BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 05:23 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
...the damage has already been done!


The damage done was the fault of the US government, not Snowden for revealing it, by allowing the intelligent community to run wild and do massive spying for the sole reason that with a large budget it was possible to do massive spying.

The results are that the world no longer trust any US firm either software or hardware not to be in bed with NSA and moving security research off shore where secret national security letters or threat to prosecuting researchers for probing for weakness in security software is not a risk.

The new team that will be taking over truecrypt [truecrypt.ch] for example is center off shore with the following statement on their website

Quote:
Located in Switzerland

If there have been legal problems with the US, the independent hosting in Switzerland will guarantee no interruption due to legal threats.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 05:52 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
The damage done was the fault of the US government, not Snowden for revealing it, by allowing the intelligent community to run wild and do massive spying for the sole reason that with a large budget it was possible to do massive spying.

All damage caused by Snowden selling the US out to the terrorists, is entirely the fault of Snowden.

The fact that the US tries to prevent terrorism does not make the US responsible for Snowden betraying us to the terrorists.


BillRM wrote:
The results are that the world no longer trust any US firm either software or hardware not to be in bed with NSA

If anyone wishes to have a trade war with us, we should be able to accommodate them.
BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 06:24 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The fact that the US tries to prevent terrorism does not make the US responsible for Snowden betraying us to the terrorists.


Nonsense as there had been no showing that massive spying had been of any benefit in stopping terrorism.


Quote:
if anyone wishes to have a trade war with us, we should be able to accommodate them.


This is not for the most part driven by governments actions but by the fact that there is a lack of trust in regards to hardware and software and cloud services produce by American firms by both individuals and companies and that this distrust also extend to American citizens and American companies.

So for example given a choice between EU produce software or hardware and US produce software/hardware a wise firm even if American would buy from the EU not from the US.

People including American citizens are already setting up new ventures off shore of the US such as the new truecrypt team to get away from the danger of US secret national security letters and such.
spendius
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 06:29 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
If anyone wishes to have a trade war with us, we should be able to accommodate them.


Should is one thing. Could you accommodate them if they did?

From the US point of view Europe really is "too big to fail".

The US is the main driver of globalisation and here you are playing the little isolationist for the numptie gallery.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 07:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
A statement from the office of the Public Prosecutor General said that “extensive preliminary investigation has uncovered sufficient factual indication that unknown members of U.S. intelligence services” had tapped Merkel’s phone.

Sources close to the office are quoted today: "There are indications that beyond pure electronic surveillance, there were American agents in Berlin for the purpose of spying on the chancellor." (Officially, the US-government said that the sole nature of the surveillance was electronic and impersonal.)
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 07:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

A statement from the office of the Public Prosecutor General said that “extensive preliminary investigation has uncovered sufficient factual indication that unknown members of U.S. intelligence services” had tapped Merkel’s phone.

Sources close to the office are quoted today: "There are indications that beyond pure electronic surveillance, there were American agents in Berlin for the purpose of spying on the chancellor." (Officially, the US-government said that the sole nature of the surveillance was electronic and impersonal.)



Walter, you have no idea how good it makes me feel that there is absolutely useless, pathetically obvious, political posturing done in other countries besides here in the United States...and that people in those countries are as anxious to buy into it as some here do.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 09:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Walter, you have no idea how good it makes me feel that there is absolutely useless, pathetically obvious, political posturing done in other countries besides here in the United States...and that people in those countries are as anxious to buy into it as some here do.
Well, if you think our criminal laws to be absolutely useless, pathetically obvious, political posturing and that people here are anxious to buy into it, well, I have a different opinion. (Prosecution and prosecutors in Germany differ from those in the USA. Wikipedia has a bit about it.)
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 09:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Well, if you think our criminal laws to be absolutely useless, pathetically obvious, political posturing and that people here are anxious to buy into it, well, I have a different opinion.

But, Frank, what's about you and your fair trial? Useless? Pathetical?


Only US laws matter that the US administration wish to be enforce not other laws either of the US or the rest of the world or the US constitution for that matter.

Frank would be happier living in a police state as he think he would be safer then living in a free nation.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 09:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Walter, you have no idea how good it makes me feel that there is absolutely useless, pathetically obvious, political posturing done in other countries besides here in the United States...and that people in those countries are as anxious to buy into it as some here do.
Well, if you think our criminal laws to be absolutely useless, pathetically obvious, political posturing and that people here are anxious to buy into it, well, I have a different opinion.


I have NEVER suggested in any way that your criminal laws are useless or anything else. I think your laws are fine.

But...

...in my opinion, the "investigation" mentioned in your post is a political stunt...made by politicians hoping to dupe a naive public.

I acknowledge that I may be wrong.

We'll see where it leads. We'll see who, if anyone, gets indicted and tried.


Quote:
But, Frank, what's about you and your fair trial? Useless? Pathetical?


I see no reason whatever to suppose that if Snowden were returned to the US...he would not get a fair trial.

It would not be useless.

It would not be pathetic.

It would be justice in action.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 09:36 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

But...

...in my opinion, the "investigation" mentioned in your post is a political stunt...made by politicians hoping to dupe a naive public.
The public prosecutors in Germany are civil servants.
The Public Prosecutor General ... well, is a kind of polical civil servant, since the Federal Minister of Justice proposes the Attorney General with the approval of the Bundesrat to the President of Germany for appointment.
But he like other prosecutors has to act according to the Courts Constitution Act.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 09:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

But...

...in my opinion, the "investigation" mentioned in your post is a political stunt...made by politicians hoping to dupe a naive public.
The public prosecutors in Germany are civil servants.
The Public Prosecutor General ... well, is a kind of polical civil servant, since the Federal Minister of Justice proposes the Attorney General with the approval of the Bundesrat to the President of Germany for appointment.
But he like other prosecutors has to act according to the Courts Constitution Act.


Yeah...our guys do, too!
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 10:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Yeah...our guys do, too!
You do know, Frank, that not only our Courts Constitution Act differs from the similar one in the USA but that we have a totally different court and legal system?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 10:09 am
So... the NSA is going to get a fair trial?

Good.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 10:54 am
@Olivier5,

Quote:
Edward Snowden joined Google, Reddit, Mozilla and a host of other tech firms and privacy groups Thursday to call for a strengthening of privacy rights online.

The Reset the Net campaign was launched June 5, a year after Snowden’s revelations about the scale of the US government’s surveillance programs were first published in the Guardian and the Washington Post.

“One year ago, we learned that the internet is under surveillance, and our activities are being monitored to create permanent records of our private lives – no matter how innocent or ordinary those lives might be,” Snowden said in a statement released by his attorney.

“Today, we can begin the work of effectively shutting down the collection of our online communications, even if the US Congress fails to do the same."

Snowden said adopting encryption was “the first effective step that everyone can take to end mass surveillance … don’t ask for your privacy. Take it back.”

"It's been a year since Edward Snowden blew the whistle on the US government's abusive spying programs. In that time Congress and the Obama Administration have failed to protect our rights," said Tiffiniy Cheng, spokesperson for Fight for the Future, which co-ordinated the campaign.

"Now, they've got a rebellion on their hands as tech companies and internet users work together to directly intervene in mass surveillance and block the NSA and its kind from the web."

Google announced its support for the campaign earlier this week and also published the source code for an “end-to-end” encryption service for its Chrome browser. The company has asked developers to help it work on the project, which it hopes will offer a simple way for people to encrypt their communications and other data online.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 11:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
But obviously some in the US-government don't like it - instead of investigations that wanted diplomatic talks. (We investigate criminal actions here - another difference.)
0 Replies
 
 

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