42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 04:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Smart; the lotto is a statistical nightmare trying to win the big one. Better to put that money into your investments to watch it grow.
Ever been struck my lightening? About the same odds.
0 Replies
 
JLO1988
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 04:27 pm
The issue is more simplistic than it seems; the inability to receive a fair trial.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 05:19 pm
@JLO1988,
JLO1988 wrote:

The issue is more simplistic than it seems; the inability to receive a fair trial.


"Simplistic" does not seem to be the word you were looking for...but you have to examine that on your own.

As for a fair trial...some people do think a "fair trial" is not possible, but mostly that is a position taken by people who want to think of Snowden as being heroic...and of great service to humanity.

Others see Snowden as anything but a hero...and for whatever reason, they seem to think Snowden CAN receive a fair trial.

He is charged with stealing classified documents and releasing them to unauthorized individuals.

Since he seems to be telling us all that he did exactly that...his only defense will have to come from getting a jury to rule that his actions were justified despite the laws.

I think there is no problem whatever with Snowden getting a fair trial...and I suspect many people who are questioning his being able to do so are really just dismayed that he may well be convicted.

I respectfully submit that they may not be as interested in a fair trial...as they are in having Snowden found NOT GUILTY despite a fair trial.

No matter what I or anyone else thinks, however, this will eventually go to a trial...unless Snowden manages to obtain permanent asylum outside the US.

If he is returned for trial, he will be represented by the best lawyers money can buy...and WILL receive a fair trial.
JLO1988
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 05:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I will defend my choice of words for one simple reason Smile

keep it mind this is a linguistic argument

If something is 'simple,' it does not necessarily require easy manufacture.

The difficulty of a fair trial is that it's not Snowden V United States of America but Snowden V NSA

I support Snowden if not only for the reason that finding him guilty would send a very disturbing message to the world.

I have also looked at the facts and they all seem to support the choices that he made. The facts also support him being found guilty at trial.

Since the NSA is not on trial, Snowden has clearly violated the law of the United States and for that reason I believe he will be found guilty when the inevitable trial concludes. I also predict that the sentence will be that he is forced to take hormones and change his last name to Plowedout.

**** the entire **** and this is why I feel that way: Chelsea Manning leaked documents and was found not-guilty of aiding the enemy. We so often forget why laws were initially created. Espionage is dangerous at times of war when tensions are flaring. It is meant so that we can legally execute spies and defectors who have turned against America. Both of these people have chosen to put their political views above themselves because of the love that they have for America, our world, and humanity. The law is blind to all of this, their actions are not on why they're on trial, their motivations are not why they are on trial, only the laws that they broke is why they are on trial.

God Bless Our United States

Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 05:58 pm
@JLO1988,
JLO1988 wrote:

I will defend my choice of words for one simple reason Smile

keep it mind this is a linguistic argument

If something is 'simple,' it does not necessarily require easy manufacture.


"Simplistic" is the wrong word.



Quote:
The difficulty of a fair trial is that it's not Snowden V United States of America but Snowden V NSA


Not sure what that means...but if it comes to trial...it will be the US v. Snowden.

Quote:
I support Snowden if not only for the reason that finding him guilty would send a very disturbing message to the world.


I do not even understand that sentence.

Quote:
I have also looked at the facts and they all seem to support the choices that he made. The facts also support him being found guilty at trial.


Nor those.

Quote:
Since the NSA is not on trial, Snowden has clearly violated the law of the United States and for that reason I believe he will be found guilty when the inevitable trial concludes.


Could be...but one never knows in trials in the US.



Quote:
I also predict that the sentence will be that he is forced to take hormones and change his last name to Plowedout.


I don't think so...but surely you jest. (No, I am not calling you Shirley.)

Quote:
**** the entire **** and this is why I feel that way: Chelsea Manning leaked documents and was found not-guilty of aiding the enemy. We so often forget why laws were initially created. Espionage is dangerous at times of war when tensions are flaring. It is meant so that we can legally execute spies and defectors who have turned against America. Both of these people have chosen to put their political views above themselves because of the love that they have for America, our world, and humanity.


Or not.

Timothy McVeigh thought he was doing what he did for humanity. So did Hitler.







Quote:
The law is blind to all of this, their actions are not on why they're on trial, their motivations are not why they are on trial, only the laws that they broke is why they are on trial.


That is the way it is supposed to be.

Quote:

God Bless Our United States


God who?
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 08:52 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
For most part, I agree with you all about orally, he seems a bit unhinged, I hope his extreme rather violent views are not held to be typical.

It sounds like you are replying to the sociopath. However, your reply is to Walter's post. I assume you meant to reply to the sociopath.

That you think it unhinged or extreme for me to suggest that the US take military action against the bad guys, suggests that you favor letting terrorists wantonly kill Americans without reprisal.


revelette2 wrote:
However, he does have a one small point, didn't Snowden claim he gave all documents up to journalist? I could be mistaken, but I thought I remembered something like that being said sometime or another.

Every single thing that Snowden has said in his recent interviews has been a rather transparent lie.

His claim about being trained as a spy was laughable.

His claim that the NSA had engaged in industrial espionage was ludicrous.

I think it reasonable to assume that he was lying about having more documents to give up as well, especially since he did all of this because he was having delusions that the NSA was doing something wrong, and as a supposed whistleblower his only goal would have been to hand everything over to responsible media at the first opportunity.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 08:52 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
To say nothing of the American firms that are losing tens of billions of dollars of business as no one trust them not to be in bed with the NSA.

If someone wants to start a trade war with us, we are capable of responding in kind.
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 08:53 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
revelette2 wrote:
So, how can he release more documents relating to Brazil or Britain if he gave them all to those various people?

Presumably, because these people will release documents if and when he asks them to release them...

If that is the case, that would mean that those people are not actually "journalists combing through material to release only what is in the public interest" as they are claiming.

Time for some DroneStrikes.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 08:55 pm
@oralloy,
It's not about a 'trade war,' dummy! It's about international businesses losing trust in American companies, and stop doing business with them.

Seems these simple concepts goes way beyond your brain power. You're one of the dumbest posters on a2k.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:02 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Quote:
Putin would have to make that decision.
What's in it for him?
What is in it for Russia?
Why would extending the term of asylum not be a better choice?

You have not taken note that the relationship between the US and Russian is not at a friendly point and the US had placed economic sanctions on Russia and Russia in turn are threatening to have our astronauts walking to the space station.

So giving the finger to the US in a manner that a large percent of the world would support is what would be in it for Putin.

I think the point was that "giving us the finger" would be better served by extending his asylum in Russia instead of by spiriting him off to Brazil.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:04 pm
@JLO1988,
JLO1988 wrote:
The issue is more simplistic than it seems; the inability to receive a fair trial.

Nah. The issue is that he would receive a fair trial.

A fair trial is the last thing Snowden ever wants to face. He would be confronted with evidence of his crimes.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:12 pm
@oralloy,
Hey, bird brain, Snowden was already charged with espionage. That means the penalty is death. You and some others speak of a "fair trial."

How dumb are you?

Until the government promises to drop that charge and offer Snowden a 'fair trial,' there's no guarantee he'll get one. capish? Naw, you're brain dead.
JLO1988
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Sorry, I was at work before, remember what that is? Anyways, I'm stoned now, let me try again.

Here is my argument in a simplistic since that even a retired man that can no longer find weed from anywhere except the government can probably understand.

How is Snowden a risk to society by not putting in jail if he no longer has any national security clearance? If tabs are kept on him for the rest of his life, say for example (safe to assume that the NSA would already be doing this with or without consent). How is he a risk to the safety of you or I? Same with Chelsea Manning? Who does it protect by locking them up?

And maybe you can clear up what you do not understand about my "sending a message" statements for yourself by answering this question, Frank. What message does it send locking someone up who is fighting against government overreach to protect the freedoms of the American public? How does it look to God when the nation that will fight to free a people from an unruly dictator is willing to imprison a person who poses no threat to the common man?

Go ahead, tell me again what is it that is so incoherent about what I'm saying or sit down because you know in your heart you hate your stance (punch line is you're probably already sitting down).

May God Bless You All
RABEL222
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 09:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Like Putin maybe?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 10:47 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Like Putin maybe?
You think, he's another one who sends the documents to the papers? May be.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 11:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Today is, by the way, the anniversary of the day, the first Snowden documents were published.

Due to the announcements of the Federal Prosecutor yesterday, all major and regional papers have it on their main pages ... and even my very conservative local paper ("Der Patriot") gives a head-up, on page 3 with the topic of the day ...

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps7486b657.jpg
JLO1988
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jun, 2014 11:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Thank you, I didn't know that.

This movie I'm about to watch illegally seems relevant also http://www.primewire.ag/watch-2745802-Field-Punishment-No1


Field Punishment No.1

Field Punishment No.1: In 1916, the New Zealand Government secretly shipped 14 of the country's most outspoken conscientious objectors to the Western Front in an attempt to convert, silence, or quite possibly kill them. This is their story.

0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 02:10 am
@oralloy,

Quote:
He would be confronted with evidence of his crimes.


Snowden and Bergdahl are two of the sanest, most important Americans of our times.

They should be feted and praised. And awarded medals and accolades. They tell the truth.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 02:11 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Merkel won't be quizzed in NSA probe
Quote:
Range told broadcaster ARD on Wednesday evening that questioning the Chancellor was "not on the agenda". He added that there were also no plans at the moment to question former NSA contractor turned whistleblower Edward Snowden who leaked evidence about a mass surveillance programme by the NSA.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Thu 5 Jun, 2014 02:14 am
@McTag,



http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/5/29/1401397099630/Steve-Bell-30.5.2014-019.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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