41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 02:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Snowden...and his cohorts...aided terrorists and terrorism with what they did.
Could you please verify "his cohorts", Frank?
(In Roman times, a cohort consisted of about 480 men and commanded by one man.)

And if he and his cohorts aided terrorists and terrorism - is our parliament, etc part of it? His documents gave us a lot of help ...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 02:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
frankie boy must mean the media (and freedom of the press) when he calls them "cohorts." Mr. Green

McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:01 pm
@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:
Yes. That's why I posted about it above.


Oh yes, so you did. I'm only an occasional reader here. Pardon.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No, I don't think so, c.i. .
I'm sure that he defends the First Amendment as much as the Sixth Amendment.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Snowden...and his cohorts...aided terrorists and terrorism with what they did.
Could you please verify "his cohorts", Frank?
(In Roman times, a cohort consisted of about 480 men and commanded by one man.)


When I wrote that, I thought about the Roman connection, Walter (not sure of the number, but I will take your word). Almost did away with it, but the word is used the way I used it here...so I let it stay.

In any case, Snowden...and the reporters who helped make the material public...did aid terrorists and terrorism.


Quote:
And if he and his cohorts aided terrorists and terrorism - is our parliament, etc part of it?


I doubt your parliament is a terrorist organization, but you should know better than I.


Quote:
His documents gave us a lot of help ...

You think so, huh?

Might be more harm coming your way because of it than you realize.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

frankie boy must mean the media (and freedom of the press) when he calls them "cohorts." Mr. Green




Look up the word in the dictionary, ci. It means what I meant it to mean in that sentence. Boy..your comments are really getting raggedy, ci. You must be in a funk. Wink

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

No, I don't think so, c.i. .
I'm sure that he defends the First Amendment as much as the Sixth Amendment.


Actually, when I was "defending" (in SAC during the 1950's) I was defending the entire Constitution.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, Snowden...and the reporters who helped make the material public...did aid terrorists and terrorism.
Thanks for clarifying.



Frank Apisa wrote:
You think so, huh?

Might be more harm coming your way because of it than you realize.
Perhaps. As it looks for the moment, it's really a harmful balancing act for our government.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Actually, when I was "defending" (in SAC during the 1950's) I was defending the entire Constitution.
Our constitution seems to be different. We've freedom of the press (Spiegel was and still is a co-publisher of the documents. [And they, Spiegel, went through this "adventure" of freedom of the press ... more than 50 years ago: Spiegel scandal])
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, Snowden...and the reporters who helped make the material public...did aid terrorists and terrorism.
Thanks for clarifying.



Frank Apisa wrote:
You think so, huh?

Might be more harm coming your way because of it than you realize.
Perhaps. As it looks for the moment, it's really a harmful balancing act for our government.


So that you understand where I am coming from, Walter...

...I sincerely hope things work out for the best for your government...and for the other governments of the world.

I want peace...and "getting along." I want humanity to be secure...and I want an end to the indignities that so many people have to endure on our planet.

I recognize the kinds of things governments are doing (and will continue to do)...and I simply want to come to grips with those things.

I know how much some of these things bother some people...but I think...honestly...that in the long run, we will see the loss of privacy as not just a good thing, but a liberating thing.

We'll see.

Change is hard to accept...and I understand the kinds of discomfort people like you (and perhaps a majority of people) feel about this.

I just feel differently.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 03:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I know how much some of these things bother some people...but I think...honestly...that in the long run, we will see the loss of privacy as not just a good thing, but a liberating thing.

We'll see.

Change is hard to accept...and I understand the kinds of discomfort people like you (and perhaps a majority of people) feel about this.

I just feel differently.[/b]
Thanks again.

I have no problems with my "open privacy". As long as I decide about, according to laws and the constitution.

If I would loose my constitutional rights (that is, if the constitution would be changed) I would fight against it. Or emigrate to a still democratic country.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 12:03 am
@Frank Apisa,

Quote:
I know how much some of these things bother some people...but I think...honestly...that in the long run, we will see the loss of privacy as not just a good thing, but a liberating thing.


Did you actually write that, Frank?

You might be interested therefore, to read the Glenn Greenwald interview linked above, the interview given to The Guardian.
He is more "American" than most of his critics and detractors.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 02:28 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
I know how much some of these things bother some people...but I think...honestly...that in the long run, we will see the loss of privacy as not just a good thing, but a liberating thing.


Did you actually write that, Frank?


Yes I did. And I meant it.

Quote:
You might be interested therefore, to read the Glenn Greenwald interview linked above, the interview given to The Guardian.
He is more "American" than most of his critics and detractors.


What link are you talking about, Mc Tag? I'll read it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 03:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I know how much some of these things bother some people...but I think...honestly...that in the long run, we will see the loss of privacy as not just a good thing, but a liberating thing.

We'll see.

Change is hard to accept...and I understand the kinds of discomfort people like you (and perhaps a majority of people) feel about this.
Coming back to this response.

Just today, the Court of Justice of the European Union published a press release about a ruling, which really will change the laws about privacy:
Quote:
An internet search engine operator is responsible for the processing that it carries out of personal data which appear on web pages published by third parties

Thus, if, following a search made on the basis of a person’s name, the list of results displays a link to a web page which contains information on the person in question, that data subject may approach the operator directly and, where the operator does not grant his request, bring the matter before the competent authorities in order to obtain, under certain conditions, the removal of that link from the list of results

An EU directive1 has the objective of protecting the fundamental rights and freedoms of natural persons (in particular the right to privacy) when personal data are processed, while removing obstacles to the free flow of such data.
... ... ...


The full ruling is >here<

Quote:
[...]
Directive 95/46 which, according to Article 1, has the object of protecting the fundamental rights and freedoms of natural persons, and in particular their right to privacy with respect to the processing of personal data, and of removing obstacles to the free flow of such data, states in recitals 2, 10, 18 to 20 and 25 in its preamble:
[...]
‘(2) … data-processing systems are designed to serve man; … they must, whatever the nationality or residence of natural persons, respect their fundamental rights and freedoms, notably the right to privacy, and contribute to … the well-being of individuals;
...
(10) … the object of the national laws on the processing of personal data is to protect fundamental rights and freedoms, notably the right to privacy, which is recognised both in Article 8 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms [, signed in Rome on 4 November 1950,] and in the general principles of Community law; … for that reason, the approximation of those laws must not result in any lessening of the protection they afford but must, on the contrary, seek to ensure a high level of protection in the Community;
[...]



I've only added this because it shows, in my opinion, the reason why I have some significant differences about the understanding with e.g. Frank.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 03:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
What link are you talking about, Mc Tag? I'll read it.


Here it is again:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/12/glenn-greenwald-uk-arrest-me-edward-snowden-nsa
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 03:45 am
@McTag,
Quote:
Did you actually write that, Frank?


You have to remember Mac that Apisa will be defining "loss of privacy" in such a way that it will be a good thing. A bit of indecent exposure.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 04:47 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
You have to remember Mac that Apisa will be defining "loss of privacy" in such a way that it will be a good thing. A bit of indecent exposure.
According to this above mentioned and linked court ruling, under European law any individual has the (human) right of control over private data.
And when we want irrelevant or wrong personal information about ourselves "to be forgotten" from search engine results, we have the right to request it - even if the information was legally published.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 09:12 pm

Interesting PBS Frontline tonight (first two hours of a four hour documentary). It's about the leaks of information about the NSA programs to the media.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 09:34 pm
@oralloy,
That's supposed to be news? LOL
classicalcynic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 10:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
by terrorists do you mean the nsa and cia?
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
he is a true cosmopolitan thus i salute him.
if you favor the state then you do not favor the rights of man.
the state keeps its power by oppressing the masses, and the masses keep theirs by oppressing the individual.
 

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