Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

he's braver than you are...

also how did he aid terrorists? you never did say.. i doubt that u know.
the cia are the one's who trained the terrorists anyways. gave them weapons etc...

and the terrorists have a right to violently defend their customs as we have a right to defend ours.

they defeated the soviets and they will defeat us.
osama aim was to bring about economical collapse, look around...

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Actually, it is/was a new a new two-part documentary about the NSA revelations.

Quote:

Now, Glenn Greenwald, Ewen MacAskill, Luke Harding and others tell the story behind the NSA revelations in a new Frontline documentary, United States of Secrets: Part One, airing Tuesday night at 9pm ET on PBS (you can watch a preview above). The documentary dives into "The Program" of surveying millions of Americans, and how it came to be. Why did the government keep it hidden from the people it was meant to protect? What happened to the whistleblowers who spoke out against it? And how does government surveillance affect the average American?

Following the broadcast, join us here on Wednesday May 14 at 2pm ET/7pm GMT for a live chat moderated by Guardian US national security editor Spencer Ackerman, featuring United States of Secrets producer Mike Wiser and NSA whistleblower Kirk Wiebe. They'll take your questions on surveillance, Snowden, secrecy, and more.

Source (with the relevant links for the chat etc)

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@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

by terrorists do you mean the nsa and cia?
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
he is a true cosmopolitan thus i salute him.
if you favor the state then you do not favor the rights of man.
the state keeps its power by oppressing the masses, and the masses keep theirs by oppressing the individual.

I've gone over most of this earlier in the thread.

Salute him all you want...I have no problem with that.

In my opinion, he is far from being a hero...and worthy of salute...but you have that right.

Most personal privacy is a thing of the past...and I suspect future humans will consider that change to have been a good thing for humankind.

We are the "state."

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

he's braver than you are...]

You've been here one day...and you know how "brave" I am!

Amazing.

Quote:

also how did he aid terrorists? you never did say.. i doubt that u know.
the cia are the one's who trained the terrorists anyways. gave them weapons etc...

Doubt all you want. That is your right.

In a forum like this, the correct way to deal with this kind of question is to read the thread...rather than to ask that it be rehashed for you.

Quote:

and the terrorists have a right to violently defend their customs as we have a right to defend ours.

Thank you for sharing that.

Quote:

they defeated the soviets and they will defeat us.
osama aim was to bring about economical collapse, look around...

And that.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

as 4 courage, it takes alot to do what he did,
as 4 u, how come i haven't seen you on the news being brave etc..

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

as 4 courage, it takes alot to do what he did,

It MAY be an act of courage...and it may be an example of poorly thought out bravado with a personal gain in mind.

You want courage? An Eskimo in a kayak hunting a whale for food for his family is showing courage; an African pygmy hunting an elephant with a spear is showing courage; a native American with a crude bow and arrow hunting a bison in a herd is showing courage; a northerner going into the American south during the 1960 to protest is showing courage; a fireman making his/her way up the stairwells in the burning World Trade Center buildings is showing courage. (I personally have never done any of those things...but they are courageous things!)

Stealing a bunch of classified documents and running away with them is not showing much "courage" in my estimation.

Quote:

as 4 u, how come i haven't seen you on the news being brave etc..

How many New Jersey newspapers have you read, cc? Are you sure I have never put my personal freedom and safety on the line in the interests of what I consider worth defending?

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

also how did he aid terrorists?

By letting them know how the US detects and tracks them.

classicalcynic wrote:

the cia are the one's who trained the terrorists anyways. gave them weapons etc...

No they didn't.

classicalcynic wrote:

and the terrorists have a right to violently defend their customs as we have a right to defend ours.

That is incorrect. The terrorists' customs are unlawful. Further, they as individuals have no right to wage war. And even if they actually did have a right to wage war, it would still be illegal for them to target civilians.

classicalcynic wrote:

they defeated the soviets and they will defeat us.

Most of al-Qa'ida is currently either dead or in US custody. We do have a handful yet to get, but it doesn't look like they'll be defeating us anytime soon.

classicalcynic wrote:

osama aim was to bring about economical collapse,

No it wasn't. His aim was to intimidate us into not acting against him when he tried to conquer the world. It was similar to Japan's aim with Pearl Harbor. And it similarly backfired.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

ill post a thred considerateing on this topic.
hold on i have to answer make up facts as i go along below u...

1 Reply

@oralloy,

By letting them know how the US detects and tracks them.prove it show me the documents.No they didn't. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA%E2%80%93al-Qaeda_controversy That is incorrect. The terrorists' customs are unlawful.
begging the question they as individuals have no right to wage war there acting as a group. clausewitz defined war as: War is the continuation of politics by other means... they are social animals being so political and to defend there policies is natural thus natural right. illegal for them to target civilians - osama said that they target civilians because we target civilians. http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/02/04/obama-terror-drones-cia-tactics-in-pakistan-include-targeting-rescuers-and-funerals/ No it wasn't.... http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09/18/osama-bin-ladens-dream-of-us-economic-collapse/
the groups terrorists did the same thing to the ussr cause economic collapse...

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

new thred go to
.....define courage...
on my page under
philosophy, metaphysics,

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

prove it

Prove that "exposing our means of tracking terrorists" will inform the terrorists about how we track them???

Don't be silly.

And maybe you could figure out how to not mix your reply in with what you are replying to?

classicalcynic wrote:

show me the documents.

If I decide to refer to any documents, I will consider doing so.

classicalcynic wrote:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA%E2%80%93al-Qaeda_controversy

Your link confirms that US aid went to the Taliban and not to al-Qa'ida. It further confirms that it was Pakistan, not the US, who decided that even the Taliban should receive our aid.

It was very kind of you to provide a link proving that I am right and you are wrong.

classicalcynic wrote:

begging the question

Hardly. The terrorists' customs are quite clearly unlawful.

classicalcynic wrote:

there acting as a group. clausewitz defined war as: War is the continuation of politics by other means... they are social animals being so political and to defend there policies is natural thus natural right.

Acting as a group does not give individuals any right to wage war. Only sovereign states have the right to wage war.

And no, there is no natural right for individuals to wage war. Any who do so are unlawful combatants, who may be executed if captured on the battlefield.

classicalcynic wrote:

osama said that they target civilians because we target civilians.

He was lying. The US does not target civilians.

classicalcynic wrote:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09/18/osama-bin-ladens-dream-of-us-economic-collapse/

The claims at this link are untrue.

0 Replies

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

make up facts as i go along

I notice your failure to point out any fact that I have wrong.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

i've noticed your delusional and should be committed.
end of discussion.
since you won't keep it rational, there's no point...
you win congratulations

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

i've noticed your delusional and should be committed.

Funny how you can't point out any facts that I am wrong about.

classicalcynic wrote:

since you won't keep it rational, there's no point...

"Me pointing out facts" is perfectly rational.

classicalcynic wrote:

you win congratulations

Thank you. I'm just doing my part to make sure the truth has a voice.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

well i will bite.
i did point out contradictions to your "facts" the links.
there is not a thing as self evident facts, so it's up to you to prove your "facts"

2 Replies

@classicalcynic,

The director of intelligence in Britain said that data shows that terrorist are using the methods exposed by Snowden less since the methods were exposed. I take his word for it for the simple reason it makes perfect logical sense and it happened in the past. You brought up Osama Bin Laden, when it was reported in the news that the US was tracking him through a certain phone (forget exactly which one, will look it up if required later) he stopped using it.

2 Replies

@revelette2,

it seems plausible but i'm hesitant to believe an appeal to authority.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

The director of intelligence in Britain said that data shows that terrorist are using the methods exposed by Snowden less since the methods were exposed. ... ....

If you are referring to your recent response: that was said by Stephen Phipson, Director of Security Industry Engagement in the Office for Security and Counter Terrorism at the Home Office.

[There are three intelligence and security agencies (Secret Intelligence Service, Security Service, GCHQ), as well as the Defence Intelligence.]

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Thanks, never been good at remembering important details, which is why I rely on looking things up. Luckily I retain the gist enough to be able to look it up. Wink

1 Reply

@revelette2,

I had to look up the Office for Security and Counter-Terrorism as well.

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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