42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 11:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
At least acknowledge it to be a possibility.
You mean, I should acknowledge that Merkel knew her phone was hacked, that our parliament was playing theater, the committees are faked and our constitution and laws are phantoms?

Okay, for peace sake!


No, Walter. We were talking about whether or not the controversy over whether or not to question Snowden; how to question him; and where to question him...

...is more political theater than anything else.

If you are saying it is at least a possibility...fine.

I think it is much more than just a possibility, but I am content to retreat to the line you have drawn.

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It may be called a political theatre. It's our parliament which wants its rights. Against the government's will. They'll loose.
I think it's called "tragedy", from the Greek τραγῳδία.
Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.
... to quote the witches in Macbeth
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 11:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
A German man from Berlin stopped at our little towns local coffee shop for a sandwich and a bottle of water. He was traveling from Chicago to New Orleans by way of Mississippi River scenic hiways and bike paths by bicycle. As we were talking I realized he had a German accent and asked him some questions about his travel. He spoke very good english but had trouble understanding my midwest accent. He was probably used to a better class of english but he was an interesting individual.
lmur
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 02:32 am
@RABEL222,
I met one last week as well. He hadn't mastered the art of tying his shoe-laces but other than that seemed pleasant enough.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 03:04 am
@lmur,
I know how to do it.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 03:16 am
@RABEL222,

Quote:
He was traveling from Chicago to New Orleans by way of Mississippi River scenic hiways and bike paths by bicycle.


That sounds very attractive, and intrepid.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Sun 11 May, 2014 03:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
You mean, I should acknowledge that Merkel knew her phone was hacked, that our parliament was playing theater, the committees are faked and our constitution and laws are phantoms?


There is a degree of truth in that Walt.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 06:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
All does look to be stretching it, nevertheless, the US has acknowledged it spied on 35 world leaders. I mentioned it to show that I don't think it had to do with Merkal being GDR? as there are other leaders of nations that were spied on.

Like I said previously, the US must of thought it an OK thing to do, but it turned to more trouble than surely it was worth.

For what it is worth, changes were made in that regard. I agree with you guys on this, the US should never had done it, much less defend it.
spendius
 
  2  
Sun 11 May, 2014 08:35 am
@revelette2,
They couldn't have stopped themselves revel. It is not in the nature of the systems we operate that any sort of conscience is, or can be, present.

They had to be stopped because were they not stopped they would be up all our arses in two shakes of a lamb's tail. And Eddie was just the first to buckle under the prospect.

Or slowed down. Or constrained to hide it better. Like not building a bloody great big building to show off in set in a landscape in which it is not immediately obvious to un-inquisitive observers. And not announcing that secret committees exist overseen by secret oversight committees appointed from that section of the population which has demonstrated most the ambition to be seen as a member of a secret committee overseeing secret operations which allow us all to sleep peacefully in our beds every night.

One might need a posh English education to discipline oneself into keeping quiet about being so important a person. Letting journalists know that there's a big secret going on which thousands are in on is like mooning.

It is all gross incompetence from first to last and Eddie is being scapegoated to hide the obvious fact. It would not surprise me in the least if Eddie is CIA.
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 04:15 pm
@spendius,
Personally I can't hardly make head nor tails out of most of what you said, furthermore, I don't have the same admiration for Edward Snowden as you folks do. I am not sure he just wanted to make a name for himself or he wanted to expose the NSA for his own values, whatever the reason, I think he is just as wrong as anything he exposed. He should have stayed to face the music and shouldn't have taken it upon himself to decide what information is vital for security and/or safety reasons or worse leaving that decision up the journalist regardless of any good you all that he did. I think He is not qualified to make those decisions. Moreover, according to this article from a former whistleblower, Snowden has blackmailed the US, or Glen Greenwald is, by saying if anything happens to Snowden, they are going to unleash all the information.

Quote:
Equally troubling, Snowden has abdicated moral responsibility by handing off much of what he stole to Laura Poitras, a freelance journalist, and Glenn Greenwald, formerly of the Guardian, and allowing them to decide what should be published. Greenwald says encrypted copies also have been given to other parties and that, if something happens to Snowden, "all the information will be revealed and it could be [the government's] worst nightmare."


source

So, no, he is hardly a hero.

Concerning the secret courts, we have had them since the 70's.

Quote:
Under Presidents Johnson and Nixon, the NSA worked with the FBI and CIA to monitor the communications of civil rights leaders and anti-war protesters, including Martin Luther King Jr. and Jane Fonda, as well as members of Congress. The exposure of those programs by Idaho Sen. Frank Church led Congress to enact the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in 1978, which created a secret court to hear warrant requests from intelligence services.


source

Before that NSA just spied without any courts overseeing it, secret or otherwise.
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 05:04 pm
@revelette2,
I think Eddie was a complete dummy. You wouldn't get me throwing up a job like he had to become a fugitive just to protect your constitutional rights.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 11 May, 2014 05:06 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Personally I can't hardly make head nor tails out of most of what you said, furthermore, I don't have the same admiration for Edward Snowden as you folks do. I am not sure he just wanted to make a name for himself or he wanted to expose the NSA for his own values, whatever the reason, I think he is just as wrong as anything he exposed. He should have stayed to face the music and shouldn't have taken it upon himself to decide what information is vital for security and/or safety reasons or worse leaving that decision up the journalist regardless of any good you all that he did. I think He is not qualified to make those decisions. Moreover, according to this article from a former whistleblower, Snowden has blackmailed the US, or Glen Greenwald is, by saying if anything happens to Snowden, they are going to unleash all the information.

Quote:
Equally troubling, Snowden has abdicated moral responsibility by handing off much of what he stole to Laura Poitras, a freelance journalist, and Glenn Greenwald, formerly of the Guardian, and allowing them to decide what should be published. Greenwald says encrypted copies also have been given to other parties and that, if something happens to Snowden, "all the information will be revealed and it could be [the government's] worst nightmare."


source

So, no, he is hardly a hero.

Concerning the secret courts, we have had them since the 70's.

Quote:
Under Presidents Johnson and Nixon, the NSA worked with the FBI and CIA to monitor the communications of civil rights leaders and anti-war protesters, including Martin Luther King Jr. and Jane Fonda, as well as members of Congress. The exposure of those programs by Idaho Sen. Frank Church led Congress to enact the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in 1978, which created a secret court to hear warrant requests from intelligence services.


source

Before that NSA just spied without any courts overseeing it, secret or otherwise.


Excellent post, Revelette. I want to express my personal thanks (and admiration) for the work you are putting into this issue.
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 11 May, 2014 05:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That is the correct method to round up a fan base.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 09:13 am
@spendius,
He was only a low level contractor, it wasn't like he was making millions of dollars. Furthermore, he was only an employee there for three months, so hardly a life long career or anything.

Quote:
On Tuesday, two days after Edward Snowden came forward and claimed responsibility for the recent leak of top-secret National Security Agency documents, Booz Allen Hamilton, the private contractor where Snowden most recently worked, announced that it had fired him.


The announcement came in a short statement, which was actually simply an update of a statement the company had released on Monday. In it, Booz Allen Hamilton confirmed that Snowden "was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii."

"Snowden, who had a salary at the rate of $122,000, was terminated June 10, 2013 for violations of the firm's code of ethics and firm policy," the statement said. "News reports that this individual has claimed to have leaked classified information are shocking, and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm. We will work closely with our clients and authorities in their investigation of this matter."

Booz Allen Hamilton included the salary figure in apparent response to Snowden's claim, in an interview with The Guardian, that he made a salary of around $200,000. The company, of course, has plenty of motivation to want to discredit Snowden. It receives the vast majority of its revenue from the government, and Snowden engaged in one of the most significant leaks of secret documents in U.S. history while on the company payroll. (TPM called Booz Allen Hamilton on Tuesday, but the company declined to discuss anything beyond what it said in its statement.)

Ed Pilkington, a reporter for The Guardian U.S., was asked about the salary discrepancy during an appearance on MSNBC on Tuesday. He acknowledged the difference, but suggested it was a minor issue.

"One hundred and twenty-two thousand, two hundred thousand is a small difference. I can't explain that," Pilkington said. "But up to now, everything that he's said -- all the articles that we've published largely by Glenn [Greenwald] -- have been proven to be accurate. There have been no denials and they haven't come back with any misinformation or anything like that. So, the big stuff has been totally bang on."


source
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 09:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
thanks
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 09:41 am
@revelette2,
You're missing the whole point of the crimes of NSA. Investigating 35 leaders of countries doesn't make any one of them right based on privacy laws.

That you agree with frankie boy doesn't prove you are correct based on our Constitution or international of sovereign country laws.

It only proves you and frankie boy don't have much use for our Constitution; most of us do.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 09:52 am
Terrorists have changed methods since Snowden leaks: UK official


(Reuters) - Terrorists have substantially changed their methods of communication since leaks by former U.S. intelligence operative Edward Snowden, hindering intelligence agencies' efforts to track them, a senior British security official said on Tuesday.

"The Snowden effect has been a very, very severe one," Stephen Phipson, a director at Britain's Office for Security and Counter Terrorism (OSCT), told a London security conference.

Snowden, a former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor, caused international uproar last June when he disclosed details of the extent of surveillance and electronic intelligence gathering by his former employers and by the British equivalent GCHQ to the Washington Post and Britain's Guardian newspaper.

"Our adversaries, the terrorists out there, now have full sight of the sorts of tools and range of techniques that are being used by government," he said. "I can tell you data shows a substantial reduction in the use of those methods of communication as a result of the Snowden leaks."

Snowden fled the United States where he faces espionage charges and has since been granted temporary asylum in Russia.

In his initial revelations, he told the newspapers the NSA was mining the personal data of users of Google, Facebook, Skype and other U.S. companies under a secret program codenamed Prism.

Further leaks suggested the United States had monitored phone conversations of some 35 world leaders, including Germany's Angela Merkel, while GCHQ has been accused of intercepting millions of Yahoo Inc webcam chats as part of massive surveillance operations.

The flood of accusations prompted U.S. President Barack Obama to announce reforms in January to scale back the NSA program and to ban eavesdropping on the leaders of close friends and allies of the United States.

Britain says its intelligence agencies have stayed within the law and that there is rigorous oversight of their actions.

"Some of the methods he (Snowden) describes that government uses to track terrorism, as a natural consequence, you see terrorists trying to use other methods of communication," Phipson later told a small group of reporters
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 10:09 am
@revelette2,
I bet Mr Phipson's Mum enjoyed reading that.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 10:39 am
@revelette2,
So what? It's up to all of our intelligence agencies to work smarter, not break the laws of our's and other's countries.

Besides all that, NSA has not proven they have prevented one terrorist activity.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 12 May, 2014 10:51 am
@revelette2,
... and the NSA has been covertly implanting interception tools in US servers heading overseas even though the US government has warned against using Chinese technology for the same reasons. (The Chinese companies "may be violating United States laws" and have "not followed United States legal obligations or international standards of business behaviour". Source)


That quote by you from the "UK official" was done at the Counter Terror Expo, "the premier international event of its kind, bringing manufacturers and service providers together with buyers and specifiers from across the world".
 

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