41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 12:03 pm
@BillRM,
I mean, a Belgian court could order Budweiser ... a German court Trader Joe's, T-mobile ... ... ...You do know thatBOUT every third ATM and cashier in the USA is German-made, don't you ... Wink
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 11:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yesterday, the German government rejected a testimony of whistleblower Edward Snowden through the German NSA panel, several media reported, citing a conclusion of the draft opinion of the government for the parliamentary committee.

The reason is said to be that it would harm relations with the USA and jeopardize the foreign and security interests of Germany considerably.

The Green Party will take legal actions against this decision.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 04:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Another side-effect of the Snowden documents:
UK slips down global press freedom list due to Snowden leaks response
Quote:
Britain has slipped down the global rankings for freedom of the press as a result of the government's crackdown on the Guardian over its reporting of whistleblower Edward Snowden's surveillance disclosures.

The annual index of media freedom, published on Wednesday, attributes the UK's drop to "negative developments", mainly the way the government responded last year to the Guardian with threats of legal action, the destruction of computer hard drives and the nine-hour detention of David Miranda, the partner of journalist Glenn Greenwald.

Freedom of Press 2014 is published by the US-based Freedom House, an NGO established in 1941 that has been ranking countries worldwide since 1980 in relation to democracy, human rights and press freedom.

The organisation said press freedom had fallen to its lowest level for over a decade. It partly blames regressive steps in countries such as Egypt, Libya, Jordan, Turkey and Ukraine, as well as the actions taken against journalists reporting on national security issues in both the US and UK.
[...]
Britain has dropped from 31st place last year to 36th, ranking it alongside Malta and Slovakia.
[...]
Countries are ranked from zero to 100 in terms of press freedom, with the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden at the top, each on 10, and North Korea at the bottom, on 97.
[...]
The US also dropped down the Freedom House rankings, from 18 points to 21. Freedom House cited federal government efforts to curb reporters covering national security issues.
... ... ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 06:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Germany blocks Edward Snowden from testifying in person in NSA inquiry
Quote:
Officials say a personal invitation for US whistleblower to attend hearing would put 'grave strain' on US-German relations

The German government has blocked Edward Snowden from giving personal evidence in front of a parliamentary inquiry into NSA surveillance, it has emerged hours before Angela Merkel travels to Washington for a meeting with Barack Obama. ... ... ...

Opposition party members in the committee from the Left and Green party had for weeks insisted that the former NSA employee was a key witness and therefore would need to appear in person, not least because of concerns that Russia otherwise could influence his testimony.

However, the ruling Christian Democratic and Social Democratic parties, said that a written questionnaire would suffice. The disagreement led to the resignation of the CDU head of the committee this month.

Last June the German foreign ministry rejected Snowden's application for asylum because it was not submitted in person on German soil. If Snowden had been invited as a witness, he could have met these requirements.

Given that only the government could supply Snowden with permits for entering and staying in the country, as well as legal protection from an extradition query, it now looks highly unlikely that the whistleblower will be able to travel to Germany before his asylum in Russia expires at the end of June. Snowden's lawyer Jesselyn Radack said on Wednesday that she expected his Russian visa to be renewed.

Opposition politicians said they would seek ways to challenge the government's veto. The Green party leader, Simone Peter, accused the chancellor of cowardice.

"Merkel is displaying cowardice towards our ally America," she said. "We owe the Americans nothing in this respect. The government must at least make a serious effort to safely bring Snowden to Germany and let him give evidence here. But Merkel doesn't want that."

On Friday Merkel's spokesman, Steffen Seibert, said that even though Berlin last year pressed for a bilateral "no-spy" pact with Washington, "concrete results" were not expected during Merkel's US visit.

On Tuesday German government officials confirmed that Merkel would raise the issue of NSA surveillance during her scheduled four-hour meeting with Obama, but that the situation in the Ukraine and the transatlantic trade agreement (TTIP) would dominate the agenda.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 09:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The German government uses an expertise made by Jeffrey Harris from the (US) law offices Rubin, Winston, Diercks, Harris & Cooke.

Beside others, Harris explains, it would be conspiracy if Snowden would be interrogated as witness in Germany. This could lead to imprisonment of German lawmakers when they travel to the USA. The US weren't obliged to accept the parliamentary immunity of German members of parliament.

Actually, even considering to interrogate Snowden is - according to that expertise - a criminal arrangement.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 10:11 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Actually, even considering to interrogate Snowden is - according to that expertise - a criminal arrangement.I



IF I was a German lawmaker I would both be mad as hell and laughing my head off over this silliness at the same time!!!!!!

Then I would get a few fellow German lawmakers together and fly to the USSR and interview Snowden making the report of the interview available to the public.

Take note the US government is not even brave enough to charge the New York Time reporters and editors with a crime so the idea that they would be arrested German lawmakers is indeed funny but it is nice to know that the US government still have great control over the German government.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 05:41 am
NYT: U.S. and Germany Fail to Reach a Deal on Spying
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The effort to remake the intelligence relationship between the United States and Germany after it was disclosed last year that the National Security Agency was tapping Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cellphone has collapsed, according to German officials, who say there will be no broad intelligence sharing or “no-spy” agreement between the two countries when Ms. Merkel arrives at the White House on Friday.
[...]
While the disclosure that the N.S.A. had listened to Ms. Merkel’s conversations for more than a decade was a passing story in the United States — one of many from the files that Edward J. Snowden took with him when he left Hawaii with the agency’s crown jewels — it has remained an issue in Germany. After the disclosure, Mr. Obama said the United States would not monitor Ms. Merkel’s communications, but he made no such commitment for any other German officials. And he said nothing about the future of the N.S.A.’s operations in Germany, including whether a listening station based in the American Embassy in Berlin, would stay intact.

For a number of months, German officials said the chancellor could not visit Washington until there was a resolution, including what they called a “restoration of trust” between the allies.

But the talks hit the rocks as soon as they began. Germany demanded a no-spy agreement that would ban the United States from conducting espionage activities on its soil. That led to a series of tough exchanges between the president’s national security adviser, Susan E. Rice, and her German counterpart, Christoph Heusgen.
[...]
Any monitoring from German soil — including from the United States Embassy — would constitute a violation of German law.

“Our positions and those of the U.S. lie quite far apart, that is quite obvious,” Ms. Merkel’s spokesman, Steffen Seibert, said Wednesday. He added that Germany stood by “the demand that on German soil the German laws must be respected, and by everybody.” Then, he added: “But it is a long political process.”

Mr. Seibert’s explanation to the German press was that a no-spy agreement and enhanced cooperation between the two country’s intelligence agencies was first proposed as “an offer which came in last year from the U.S.” He said that is “not being followed up on” by the Obama administration.

American officials say the concept originated with German officials in an effort to respond to the political uproar caused by the Snowden disclosure. “There is huge hypocrisy here,” said one senior intelligence official, who would not talk on the record about intelligence issues. “Allies spy on each other — that’s not exactly news. And Germany makes huge use of what we provide them from our infrastructure in Europe and around the world. Yet they had to respond to the outrage.”

It is unclear how the disagreement may figure in talks between Mr. Obama and Ms. Merkel. But Mr. Obama is intent on closing the chapter that involved the revelation of N.S.A. spying on the chancellor — something Obama and Bush administration officials insist they did not know about — and focusing on Ukraine.

Ms. Merkel’s government will also report Friday to a parliamentary commission on the Snowden disclosures. Its report is expected to say that Mr. Snowden will not be called to testify in Germany about the conclusions he reached. A German newspaper, The Süddeutsche Zeitung, quoted a document from German officials as saying that inviting Mr. Snowden, who is wanted on criminal charges in the United States, to Germany would put a “permanent strain” on relations with Washington.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 05:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Allies DO spy on each other...and as the unnamed source noted, that is not exactly news.

A friendship between the US and Germany is to the mutual benefit of both countries...and will, for all intents and purposes, remain intact.

Obviously there will be lots of pissing and moaning from the German population and press...but the realities will prevail among the people who govern. If the situation were reversed, the pissing and moaning would be coming from the Americans...and the realities would still prevail.

This will all become a non-issue at some point...and the sooner it is behind us, the better.

But things are not going to change appreciably, because allies DO (AND WILL CONTINUE TO) spy on each other.


Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 06:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Like Senator McCain said yesterday about Merkel: "I am not surprised but embarrassed at their failure of leadership."

On other news: the NSA-website (homepage plus ???) has been hacked by a German hacker - he just showed it on tv. (Well, he showed it earlier, the report was just aired)

It was done by a simple "cross site scripting bug" - the NSA was informed by the hacker via the tv-company (public broadcaster in East Germany [sic!]) and changed that.

So instead of the line "Defending Our Nation. Securing The Future" ...

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsbfe51393.jpg

... you could read (in German) "Take Care Of Your Homepage"

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/b_zps8234f7f8.jpg


Secondly, he could go to the NSA-server via "SQL inject". For legal reasons, it's not shown ... and they don't know, what the NSA did with.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 07:07 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
This will all become a non-issue at some point...and the sooner it is behind us, the better.
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:

Any monitoring from German soil — including from the United States Embassy — would constitute a violation of German law.

Do you really think that we change the laws (and our constituion) because you (you and the USA) want it?

However, since there IS this parliamentary committee and since the Federal Constitutional Court WILL make some kind of decision, it still will be an issue in legal records, parliamentary archive and law books.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 07:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
This will all become a non-issue at some point...and the sooner it is behind us, the better.
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:

Any monitoring from German soil — including from the United States Embassy — would constitute a violation of German law.

Do you really think that we change the laws (and our constituion) because you (you and the USA) want it?

However, since there IS this parliamentary committee and since the Federal Constitutional Court WILL make some kind of decision, it still will be an issue in legal records, parliamentary archive and law books.


We'll see which of us is correct, Walter.

MY GUESS: Merkel and your government want it to "go away" every bit as much as we do.

I'm betting they will make it happen...at least to the point where just a very small minority will continue to hack at it. We get that same thing here in the US...ya know, the birthers and that ilk!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 07:43 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I'm betting they will make it happen...
You need a 2/3 majority in in both parliamentary chambers (Bundestag and Bundesrat) to change the constitution.

Besides that: it will even then be rather difficult, because the constitutional articles about "privacy" can't be changed in their " essential content".

And I sincerely doubt that Merkel, our current or any other future government will create a "new Germany" with a completely different constitution just for that.


But as Jeffrey Harris wrote: it can be a conspiracy of German lawmakers ... (Though he obviously didn't be aware of that we have a constitution, own laws and aren't an US-state.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 08:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I'm betting they will make it happen...
You need a 2/3 majority in in both parliamentary chambers (Bundestag and Bundesrat) to change the constitution.

Besides that: it will even then be rather difficult, because the constitutional articles about "privacy" can't be changed in their " essential content".

And I sincerely doubt that Merkel, our current or any other future government will create a "new Germany" with a completely different constitution just for that.


But as Jeffrey Harris wrote: it can be a conspiracy of German lawmakers ... (Though he obviously didn't be aware of that we have a constitution, own laws and aren't an US-state.)


I do not for one second think that "putting this behind us" will involve a "new constitution"...or a revision, Walter, nor have I ever suggested such a change will be necessary for us to put this behind us.

It is going to happen because reconciliation (any that is needed) IS IN THE INTEREST OF BOTH OF US.

We need each other...we have to be allies.

And we will have to accept publicly what we have been accepting under the covers for a very long time: Allies spy on each other.

That is the lesson that has been taught.

It should be part of Snowden's defense when he finally stands trial on the charges he faces.

And if found guilty...we should all be thankful to him for being willing to go to prison for a long time in order to teach us that lesson.

If found not guilty...we should all be thankful to him anyway for the potential sacrifice.

Either way...Snowden is not a dummy. He is misguided...and probably a thief of classified documents...but not a dummy.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 11:13 am
@Frank Apisa,
In the German tv-news this evening, the main tv channels (the public broadcasters as well as the private) just show shorter features about the Merkel visit in the USA and focus with longer reports on the NSA-affair.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 12:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

In the German tv-news this evening, the main tv channels (the public broadcasters as well as the private) just show shorter features about the Merkel visit in the USA and focus with longer reports on the NSA-affair.


Whatever sells!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 12:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Whatever sells!
Our public broadcasters are financed from the licence fees every household, every company and even every public institution like city governments are required to pay.


Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 12:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Merkel Says Gaps With U.S. Over Surveillance Remain
Quote:
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany said Friday that there were still significant differences between Germany and the United States over the issue of surveillance, and warned that it was too soon to return to “business as usual” between the two allies.

At a joint news conference at the White House, both Ms. Merkel and President Obama addressed the tensions between the two countries caused by the disclosure last October that the National Security Agency had eavesdropped on Ms. Merkel’s phone calls. At the time, Ms. Merkel said that “spying between friends is simply unacceptable,” and that there had been a breach of trust that would have to be repaired.

Speaking in the Rose Garden after a meeting with Mr. Obama, Ms. Merkel said that “we have a few difficulties still to overcome,” noting in particular a difference “on the issue of proportionality.”

Mr. Obama, trying to put a good face on the situation, said, “We have gone a long way to closing some of the gaps, but as Chancellor Merkel said, there are some gaps that need to be worked through.”

“These are complicated issues,” the president said, as he looked over at Ms. Merkel. “We’re not perfectly aligned yet, but we share the same values, and we share the same concerns.”

“Angela Merkel is one of my closest friends on the world stage, somebody whose partnership I deeply value,” Mr. Obama said. “It has pained me to see the degree to which the Snowden disclosures have created strains in the relationship.”
[...]
Ms. Merkel pointedly did not answer a question about whether the personal trust between her and Mr. Obama had been restored.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 12:52 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Whatever sells!
Our public broadcasters are financed from the licence fees every household, every company and even every public institution like city governments are required to pay.





Whatever draws listeners.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 12:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Merkel Says Gaps With U.S. Over Surveillance Remain
Quote:
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany said Friday that there were still significant differences between Germany and the United States over the issue of surveillance, and warned that it was too soon to return to “business as usual” between the two allies.

At a joint news conference at the White House, both Ms. Merkel and President Obama addressed the tensions between the two countries caused by the disclosure last October that the National Security Agency had eavesdropped on Ms. Merkel’s phone calls. At the time, Ms. Merkel said that “spying between friends is simply unacceptable,” and that there had been a breach of trust that would have to be repaired.

Speaking in the Rose Garden after a meeting with Mr. Obama, Ms. Merkel said that “we have a few difficulties still to overcome,” noting in particular a difference “on the issue of proportionality.”

Mr. Obama, trying to put a good face on the situation, said, “We have gone a long way to closing some of the gaps, but as Chancellor Merkel said, there are some gaps that need to be worked through.”

“These are complicated issues,” the president said, as he looked over at Ms. Merkel. “We’re not perfectly aligned yet, but we share the same values, and we share the same concerns.”

“Angela Merkel is one of my closest friends on the world stage, somebody whose partnership I deeply value,” Mr. Obama said. “It has pained me to see the degree to which the Snowden disclosures have created strains in the relationship.”
[...]
Ms. Merkel pointedly did not answer a question about whether the personal trust between her and Mr. Obama had been restored.



We are allies...we will remain allies...even though there are Americans who despise Germans and Germans who despise Americans.

And, almost certainly, we will spy on each other.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2014 01:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Code: “It has pained me to see the degree to which the Snowden disclosures have created strains in the relationship.”

It's like a husband saying: "It has pained me that the neighbors' disclosure of my multiple sexual adventures have strained the relationship with my wife.... Darn neighbors!"
0 Replies
 
 

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