42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 11:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Snowden expressed his willingness to testify before a German parliamentary committee investigating surveillance activities of the NSA - Germany' Federal Interior Minister de Mazière said this would be considered, especially regarding the complex juridical questions.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 11:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Snowden expressed his willingness to testify before a German parliamentary committee investigating surveillance activities of the NSA - Germany' Federal Interior Minister de Mazière said this would be considered, especially regarding the complex juridical questions.


I hope someday soon he expresses his willingness to testify before a grand jury in the United States. That most assuredly is where he ought to be testifying.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 12:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
That most assuredly is where he ought to be testifying.
Says you. We want him as witness about possibly severe crimes done here.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 12:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
That most assuredly is where he ought to be testifying.
Says you. We want him as witness about possibly severe crimes done here.


Possibly done there, Walter.

And we want him before a grand jury for severe crimes possibly done here.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 12:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Well, if I had the change to appear either as witness or as accused, especially, when I got asylum because I was accused, ...

Actually, how many people who got asylum somewhere go back to the country they fled from?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 01:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, if I had the change to appear either as witness or as accused, especially, when I got asylum because I was accused, ...

Actually, how many people who got asylum somewhere go back to the country they fled from?


Beats me, Walter.

I was not talking about what will happen...I was talking about what should happen.

He is an accused, as you noted. He should get a chance to show that he is not a thief...that he is not someone who would break his oath without justification and steal government classified documents.

He deserves that right.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 02:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Well, Frank, that's exactly what all government say when people fled and searched asylum somewhere else.
Most, if not all them, don't believe it. And some gob´vernments don't either - otherwise they hadn't granted asylum.

I can understand the dilemma our government is in, too: law is law, but friends/allies are allies and friends .... especially, when they use pressure.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 02:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
If Snowden gets a trial or can come as a witness to Germany (without being extradited to the USA) or not - the topic has changed ...

Interesting comment in the Guardian/Observer: The NSA's Heartbleed problem is the problem with the NSA
Quote:
What the agency's denial isn't telling you: it didn't even need know about the bug to vacuum your privacy and store it indefinitely
[... ... ...]
If NSA moved quickly enough – as dedicated spies are supposed to – the agency could have exploited the bug to steal those keys before most sites got around to fixing the bug, gaining access to a vast treasure trove of stored traffic.

That creates a huge dilemma for private sector security experts. Normally, when they discover a vulnerability of this magnitude, they want to give their colleagues a discrete heads-up before going public, ensuring that the techies at major sites have a few days to patch the hole before the whole world learns about it.

The geeks at NSA's massive Information Assurance Directorate – the part of the agency tasked with protecting secrets and improving security – very much want to be in that loop. But they're part of an organization that's also dedicated to stealing secrets and breaking security. And security companies have been burned by cooperation with NSA before: the influential firm RSA trusted the agency to help them improve one of their popular security tools, only to discover via another set of Snowden documents that the spies had schemed to weaken the software instead.

Giving NSA advance warning of Heartbleed could help the agency protect all those government systems that were relying on OpenSSL to protect user data – but it also would aid them in exploiting the bug to compromise privacy and security on a massive scale in the window before the fix was widely deployed.

Little wonder, then, that the President's Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies – informally known as the Surveillance Review Group – dedicated a large section of its recent report, Liberty and Security in a Changing World, to this basic tension. "NSA now has multiple missions and mandates, some of which are blurred, inherently conflicting, or both," the Review Group wrote. "Fundamentally NSA is and should be a foreign intelligence organization" rather than "an information assurance organization."

Because Internet security depends on trust and cooperation between researchers, the mission of a security-breaking agency is fundamentally incompatible with that of a security-protecting agency. It's time to spin off NSA's "defense" division from the "offense" team. It's time to create an organization that's fully devoted to safeguarding the security of Internet users – even if that might make life harder for government hackers.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 12 Apr, 2014 02:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, Frank, that's exactly what all government say when people fled and searched asylum somewhere else.


The question, Walter, is: Did Edward Snowden break his oath and steal classified documents and distribute them to unauthorized persons?

If "yes"...then there should be a trial to determine whether or not there was justification.

My guess is that if Edward Snowden were to return to the United States to stand trial...he would get the very top legal representation available anywhere...and would be prosecuted by guys who could not make the grade in private practice.

The jury would be impartial...and would fairly judge the evidence and arguments presented.

ALL of the situation would be stacked in Snowden's favor.

Snowden deserves the chance to vindicate himself...and the United States government (meaning, the people of the United States) deserves the chance to prosecute him.



Quote:
Most, if not all them, don't believe it. And some gob´vernments don't either - otherwise they hadn't granted asylum.


I truly do not understand what you were trying to say here, Walter. If it is something you think is important and would like a response, you'll have to reword it.

Quote:
I can understand the dilemma our government is in, too: law is law, but friends/allies are allies and friends .... especially, when they use pressure.


I can understand the dilemma your government faces also, Walter...although I see the dilemma from a different perspective. I suspect the dilemma is that "your government" knows that it also spies on other countries...and doors might be opened that they prefer to remain shut.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 12:15 am
The German Aerospace Center (Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt) has been attacked with trojans and spyware since months, Spiegel just reported in an exclusive report.

Seems to origin in China ... but due to the recent affairs, the NSA is in the focus of the investigation as well.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 12:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I can understand the dilemma your government faces also, Walter...although I see the dilemma from a different perspective. I suspect the dilemma is that "your government" knows that it also spies on other countries...and doors might be opened that they prefer to remain shut.
That's seen differently here. Even the worst critics of our government from the extreme left don't have such ideas.

It's a legal thing. And closely connected to our dependency to the USA, and that we have to be thankful, and are friends, and that it is our best ally, and our bad history ...
ossobuco
 
  0  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 12:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
Is there some reason you yell in your posts? Do you think your readers can not read?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 02:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I can understand the dilemma your government faces also, Walter...although I see the dilemma from a different perspective. I suspect the dilemma is that "your government" knows that it also spies on other countries...and doors might be opened that they prefer to remain shut.
That's seen differently here. Even the worst critics of our government from the extreme left don't have such ideas.

It's a legal thing. And closely connected to our dependency to the USA, and that we have to be thankful, and are friends, and that it is our best ally, and our bad history ...


I am not trying to be a pain-in-the-butt about this, Walter...but I am trying to put it into a perspective that you, and others like you, seem unwilling to even consider.

If your government does not spy on other governments...it is not doing its job. If your government does not spy on other governments to the very best of its capabilities to do so...it is not doing its job very well.

Governments have a responsibility to keep the citizenry safe. We humans may consider ourselves a very intelligent species...but there is no animal on the planet more dangerous than we.

Insofar as they are able, all governments ought to try to find out as much as possible about all other governments...which is just about the definition of "spying."

I suspect you are being naive about what "the worst critic" of your government think on this subject.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 02:27 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Is there some reason you yell in your posts? Do you think your readers can not read?


I am not yelling...and sometimes, not always, I like to differentiate between my replies and the stuff I quote. Some people use color...I sometimes use bold or caps. If you do not like the way I write...you can put me on ignore.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 02:55 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I suspect you are being naive about what "the worst critic" of your government think on this subject.
You're wrong.

Well, not really: it is now considered (by the opposition) that we start spying on our allies and maybe friends as well, at least on the USA.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 03:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I suspect you are being naive about what "the worst critic" of your government think on this subject.
You're wrong.

Well, not really: it is now planned that we start spying an our allies and maybe friends as well, at least on the USA.


That is a smart move on the part of your government. If they were not doing it before (I seriously doubt they were not)...they were being remiss.

And if your intelligence agencies are up to it...if they have the capabilities...they should spy on Barack Obama's personal phone or Blackberry. Never know what you can find out!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 03:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Though I don't agree with him a lot, I have a deep respect about what he does ... and how he does it: wikipedia about Ströbele

Wikipedia about the "Bundesnachrichtendienst", the German foreign intelligence agency.
The Federal Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information has to ensures ensure the implementation of data protection regulations and compliance with pertinent service regulations; in the exercise of his duties he has the right to inspect records.
Special parliamentary controls are carried out by the Parliamentary Control Panel (PKGr), the Confidential Committee of the Budget Committee and by the G10 Commission. (The above mentioned Ströbele is a member of all.)

We don't have secret courts.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 06:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What makes you think Russia would allow Snowden out of the country to testify even if somehow the US didn't grab him before he ever reached Germany?

I know I get accused of being naïve quite regularly, but, pardon me for saying so, you somehow seem deliberately so. I know that is what you all would like to happen, Snowden seems to want it to happen, but the chances are not very high it will happen. Moreover, what else can he shed light that hasn't already been said?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 06:49 am
@revelette2,
Well, actually I think that the USA will be get him as soon as he's outside Russian territory. (Remember what happened with the flight of Bolivia’s president last year?)

It may be naïve, but since no official Russian side said something against it, I don't think that he would have difficulties.

But according to latest rumours from "usually well-informed sources", our government thinks it to be highly risky to invite him as a witness.

(If he would get asylum here, that could be a way of restoring Germany's damaged sovereignty. But it won't happen.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 10:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to the Spiegel reports, there are some indications that China may have been behind the attack.
However, news agencies cite "a German government" source who said such clues could have been built into the spyware as means of throwing investigators off the trail. This source didn't comment on the question of the NSA, though.
 

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