Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

You haven't answered that yet.

I understand.

You didn't comment on what the prsident and the director said ... already months ago.

I understand that, too.

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Spying happens. I doubt any reasonable intelligence organization will ever tell the public all the public wants to know.

I've never doubted that spying happens.

But actually, here's not "the public".

However, I understand that you and the USA wouldn't like that Merckel gets to know why and what was spied on her.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

To consider Snowden a hero...is an absurdity, Walter.

I don't think that I ever said/wrote such.
The best I can think of is that acted courageous.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

You haven't answered that yet.

I understand.

You didn't comment on what the prsident and the director said ... already months ago.

I understand that, too.

Perhaps they lied. I am willing to go with that. Politicians and Intelligence officers LIE all the time.

Why does that come as such a surprise to you?

Do you suggest we eliminate all politicians and Intelligence officials who lie?????

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Spying happens. I doubt any reasonable intelligence organization will ever tell the public all the public wants to know.

I've never doubted that spying happens.

But actually, here's not "the public".

Yeah, Walter...it is "the public."

Quote:

However, I understand that you and the USA wouldn't like that Merckel gets to know why and what was spied on her.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Why would you think otherwise?

Spying happens...and if she wants to know what is in those files...she ought to get her intelligence agents to find out.

If they cannot...that means our spying and spy prevention...is better than yours.

You want the fact that America spied on your country and your chancellor to be a horrible thing. It isn't, Walter. Come to grips with that.

Spy on us. Spy on Obama. I would not raise one damn objection.

You want international transparency!

This is one way to get it.

And no one has to break laws and break oaths to get it. All they have to do is to maybe lie a bit.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
To consider Snowden a hero...is an absurdity, Walter.

I don't think that I ever said/wrote such.
The best I can think of is that acted courageous.

I didn't say you did...any more than I said you consider him a traitor!

And if you want to think what he did was courageous...fine with me.

Do you think the people who spied on your chancellor were courageous also?

3 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Do you think the people who spied on your chancellor were courageous also?

For sure if they were taking the sort of risks Eddie took.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Do you think the people who spied on your chancellor were courageous also.

Not in the least, Frank. They were your typical bomber group that slaughters villagers from 40,000 feet or your drone gamers who target family funerals.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Do you think the people who spied on your chancellor were courageous also?

No. Sitting in a dark room and listen phone calls might be boring and has perhaps been a discipline punishment.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

A decision by Germany not to grant political asylum to NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden would be "offensive and amoral", Glenn Greenwald - the journalist in charge of Snowden‘s extensive surveillance archive - told dpa according to this Spiegel-report (in German).

"Germany has received enormous benefits as a result of Snowden‘s willingness to give his up own interests," said the former Guardian journalist in an interview with dpa.

"For (Germany) then not to be willing to endure mild, temporary changes to its relationship to the US strikes me as offensive and amoral, practically indefensible," added Greenwald, referencing the governing coalition‘s hesitation to further strain diplomatic relations.

"As a result of the revelations, all Germans are better able to protect their own basic rights to privacy. The top levels of the German political class, including democratically elected officials, have learned about the invasion of their privacy. Germany is obliged to protect the human rights of (those) being persecuted," he said.

Greenwald and Poitras will fly from Berlin to the USA for the first time since revelations of worldwide surveillance broke today to attend the Polk Awards ceremony in New York City.

Quote:

The Pulitzer Prizes will be announced Monday and it is expected that reporting on the NSA, one of the biggest stories of the past year, will be honored in some capacity.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

You haven't answered that yet.

I understand.

You didn't comment on what the prsident and the director said ... already months ago.

I understand that, too.

Perhaps they lied. I am willing to go with that. Politicians and Intelligence officers LIE all the time.

Why does that come as such a surprise to you?

Do you suggest we eliminate all politicians and Intelligence officials who lie?????

Under oath? Yes, absolutely. Obama wasn't under oath when he made his statement. Clapper was. But, then, I also thought Clinton lying under oath was indefensible. If our elected officials believe it is acceptable to lie under oath at an inquest and/or trial, then why should anyone tell the truth at trial?

2 Replies

@JPB,

They go to court here, even if there testimonity wasn't under oath, ... and get a fair trial

Quote:

Section 153
False testimony

Whosoever as a witness or expert gives false unsworn testimony before a court or other authority competent to examine witnesses and experts under oath shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

They do here too, supposedly. But someone at the DOJ has to press charges. The laws exist, but it appears that the only people expected to follow them are those outside gov't.

2 Replies

@JPB,

The prosecution must act here compulsorily - it's a so-called "Offizialdelikt" like any other serious crime.

0 Replies

@JPB,

Quote:

They do here too, supposedly. But someone at the DOJ has to press charges. The laws exist, but it appears that the only people expected to follow them are those outside gov't.

The DOJ's boss is the one heading the criminal organization that orchestrates the crimes. There seems to be a bit of a conflict of interest, wouldn't you say?

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

You haven't answered that yet.

I understand.

You didn't comment on what the prsident and the director said ... already months ago.

I understand that, too.

Perhaps they lied. I am willing to go with that. Politicians and Intelligence officers LIE all the time.

Why does that come as such a surprise to you?

Do you suggest we eliminate all politicians and Intelligence officials who lie?????

Under oath? Yes, absolutely. Obama wasn't under oath when he made his statement. Clapper was. But, then, I also thought Clinton lying under oath was indefensible. If our elected officials believe it is acceptable to lie under oath at an inquest and/or trial, then why should anyone tell the truth at trial?

I don't think anyone should lie under oath...and if anyone is suspected of doing so, that person should be charged with and receive a fair trial to determine guilt or innocence.

Which reminds me of why I want to see Snowden, who is not in my opinion a dummy, receive a fair trail.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I don't think anyone should lie under oath.

But you are more than comfortable doing it in general situations, Frank.

0 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

The DOJ's boss is the one heading the criminal organization that orchestrates the crimes. There seems to be a bit of a conflict of interest, wouldn't you say?

I thought that Watergate was supposed to have been a real learning experience for the USA. Remember all the talk about how it showed that the system worked.

0 Replies

Heartbleed seems to be the biggest glitch in the Internet’s history.
NSA knew about it since two years, but kept the bug secret in pursuit of national security interests ... according to bloomberg.

I wonder now, who will go to trial for making it public. Especially, since NSA used the bug.

0 Replies

NYT-report: Journalists Who Broke News on N.S.A. Surveillance Return to the U.S.

Quote:

[...]
Despite a trouble-free entry into the United States, Mr. Greenwald and Ms. Poitras had traveled with a lawyer from the American Civil Liberties Union, and a German journalist to document any unpleasant surprises. “The risks of subpoena are very real,” Ms. Poitras said. “We know there is a threat.”

The Guardian and The Washington Post are considered contenders for the Pulitzer Prizes, which will be announced on Monday.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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