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Snowdon is a dummy

Forums: Politics, Snowden, Asylum, Nsa, Snowdon
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izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Perhaps you are projecting your feelings.


Perhaps. Tell me, what do you think, (post WW2,) the UK has gained from the so called special relationship, because I can't think of a damn thing.

I can see the downside, our soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 7/7 bombings, and the murder of Lee Rigby, but I can't for the life of me see any benefit whatsoever.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:30 pm
@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Perhaps you are projecting your feelings.


Perhaps. Tell me, what do you think, (post WW2,) the UK has gained from the so called special relationship, because I can't think of a damn thing.

I can see the downside, our soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 7/7 bombings, and the murder of Lee Rigby, but I can't for the life of me see any benefit whatsoever.


My "projecting your feelings" comment was directed at your suggestion that the UK is a vassal state of the United States.

I do not see it that way.

Perhaps you are correct.

Perhaps we ought to return to being enemies...as we were during the war of American Independence and War of 1812. Maybe we ought to hate each other.

I would vote "no"...and would do everything in my power to get others to vote "no" also.

Your antagonism on this seems extreme...so there is not much I can say to make you more friendly toward us.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, Don't let personal anecdotal statements make you think most Brits hate Americans. They don't.

From Yahoo answers.
Quote:
Mate, what are you even in about, give your head a wobble yeah.
On the whole Brits don't hate Americans at all, we have this weird relationship where we pick at each other, but on the whole we get a long just fine, also, i think you'll find a lot of Brits like American stuff, TV, music etc, just as a lot of Americans like British stuff. We pretty much share everything, and have great respect for each other, most of the time, yeah there are some who dislike the other, but really, it's all banter most of the time, generally stuff you watch, listen to in either US or UK is somehow connected to the other.
Do yourself a favour and STFU.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank, Don't let personal anecdotal statements make you think most Brits hate Americans. They don't.

From Yahoo answers.
Quote:
Mate, what are you even in about, give your head a wobble yeah.
On the whole Brits don't hate Americans at all, we have this weird relationship where we pick at each other, but on the whole we get a long just fine, also, i think you'll find a lot of Brits like American stuff, TV, music etc, just as a lot of Americans like British stuff. We pretty much share everything, and have great respect for each other, most of the time, yeah there are some who dislike the other, but really, it's all banter most of the time, generally stuff you watch, listen to in either US or UK is somehow connected to the other.
Do yourself a favour and STFU.



ci...I am an unabashed Anglophyle. I lived there for two years...and consider it a second home. I never ever felt unwanted or disliked for being an American. Just as we sometimes enjoy a talk with someone with "a British accent"...my British friends seemed to enjoy talking with someone with "an American accent."

I think Izzy is over-doing this one.

I hope his feelings are not the norm for the British public.

I am disturbed that this whole mess has caused rifts between some countries and America...but I think we will eventually iron them out. I suspect the "spying" may be a lot more benign than appears at first blush. I certainly hope so.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Why do you have to think in extremes? What's wrong with knocking it on the head and going for neutrality?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Why do you think my comments about American imperialism have any relation to personal relations between people.

You've still not answered my question. What benefits have the so called special relationship given to Britain?

It's an honest question.
Moment-in-Time
 
  3  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:15 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

I can see the downside, our soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 7/7 bombings, and the murder of Lee Rigby, but I can't for the life of me see any benefit whatsoever.


The invasion of Iraq was a waste of humanity and GWB and Tony Blair were joined at the hip so closely, the question was often asked across the web if Blair were GWB's bi*tch. This UNNECESSARY war tarnished both nations and there was no benefit to either side, but the great loss of life to Iraqi citizens, Military soldiers both Britain and the US should make the destructive NEOCONS hang their head in pure shame....It was a pyrrhic victory, a war won at too great a cost! Before the actual invasion, word came out from the UK that Saddam Hussein was capable of sending a missile to the UK that would take only 45 minutes. "The 45-minute claim" was a key feature of the dossier about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that was released by Tony Blair in September 2002. Blair published the information to bolster public support for war.

Britain was one of the few major powers to go along with GWB totally to invade this sovereign nation called Iraq. France, Germany, Russia, these other powerful nations declined, thinking wisely, there was no need to invade Iraq, after all, Osama Bin Ladin was supposed to be hiding out in the caves of Afghanistan. Even then there was no need to go to war in Afghanistan, merely to keep chasing Bin Ladin until they captured him which they would have if GWB had not other priorities, i.e, profiteering for Cheney's Halliburton and its subsidiaries, and control of the oil well along with ridding the middle east of an Israeli enemy.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:22 pm
@izzythepush,
You wrote,
Quote:
What benefits have the so called special relationship given to Britain?


Isn't that a question you need to ask Tony Blair?

Many Americans were against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. To blame all Americans for our government's misdeeds is a bit unrealistic.

To blame all Americans goes beyond the pail.
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:23 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
An the bad, knowing human nature and human history, will include kicking out the current party in power by legal means.


In a rule of law country legal means means holding those in high positions to the same legal standard as everyone else. That has never ever been the case in the US for war crimes that are every bit as evil as that of Nazi Germany, for terrorism that makes OBL look like a Sunday school teacher.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:24 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
If anything it's quite nice that you refer to us as a 'powerful nation,' thanks I appreciate the sentiment, but this is 2013, not 1813. Let me reiterate, I have no problem with Americans as individuals, I've met a lot, and generally got on very well with them.

I have a problem with the bullying, intimidating nature of the American government, regardless of what party is in power.

I think our future lies with the EU, where at least we arte treated as equals. I repeat, if you can think of anything about the special relationship that benefits Britain, please say.

Yes, Tony Blair betrayed us. He is a war criminal.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:32 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Why do you have to think in extremes? What's wrong with knocking it on the head and going for neutrality?


Explain???
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:33 pm
@izzythepush,
I can't speak for all british folk, but I have nothing against yanks, or any other nation's people.
Just twats who think the moon rotates around its own axis....
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:39 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

If anything it's quite nice that you refer to us as a 'powerful nation,' thanks I appreciate the sentiment, but this is 2013, not 1813. Let me reiterate, I have no problem with Americans as individuals, I've met a lot, and generally got on very well with them.

I have a problem with the bullying, intimidating nature of the American government, regardless of what party is in power.
I think our future lies with the EU, where at least we arte treated as equals. I repeat, if you can think of anything about the special relationship that benefits Britain, please say.

Yes, Tony Blair betrayed us. He is a war criminal.



I get that, Izzy.

Just for the record, could you give me three examples of countries or empires that were dominant in their day...that did not push their weight around just as much as we do?

Certainly Great Britain did it. France did it. Spain did it. Portugal did it. Japan did it. Rome did it. Greece did it. Egypt did it. The Mayans and Incas did it. The Zulus did it.

Yes...we flex our muscles more than we should We are in complete agreement on that, Izzy. But we are humans...and every human society has done it...and often with much, much consequences.

If we were acting now with what we have at our disposal the way Great Britain did with what it had at its disposal during the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries...we would be much, much, much, much, much worse.

We've actually got a better handle on things...than most powerful nations have been in the past.
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank will never admit to the deep evil that the US is/has been forever engaged in because it doesn't square with his lifetime of propaganda swallowing.

You could take a Frank Apisa and introduce him to any purveyor of evil and he would fit in perfectly - a Unit 731, a concentration camp, a death camp, ... .

How do I know this?










He said he was a real estate agent for dog's sake. Smile
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I've made my mind up about Blair.

Now, since WW2, what benefits do you think the 'special relationship' has brought Britain? Don't confine yourselves to Blair , go back to the 1950s. Please, just give me one benefit, just one.
mark noble
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:42 pm
@izzythepush,
Snickers bars...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:44 pm
@mark noble,
Does Snickers have more nuts in it than Baby Ruth? Mr. Green
JTT
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I agree with you here, Walter.

We should only spy on acknowledged terrorists...or on people we know for certain are terrorists.

So we are in agreement, correct?


Ergo, Edward Snowden is a hero and a patriot.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
We've actually got a better handle on things...than most powerful nations have been in the past.


Really? The thing is, Americans are very quick to condemn the British Empire, until that is, they are trying to explain their actions in the here and now.

America claims to have higher values, freedom, democracy, human rights and all that, but when their real, dollar orientated, fat cat capitalist, values are exposed, they cite imperialist nations as a precedent.

You can't have it both ways.

Why do you think the US is so wildly popular in Latin America? What could possibly cause Venezuela to grant Snowden political asylum?

Again, what benefits do you think the 'special relationship' has brought Britain?

Have your bases protected us, or have they just made us a target?
mark noble
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Only tried a Ruth once - friendgift from US hols - was crap, had no nuts - One bite and was gone.
Yank-chocolate is remarkably bland and sugary.
0 Replies
 
 

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