42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 11:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You can't hold Frank on any of his opinions, because it's only an "opinion" and not based on facts. He guesses a lot, and believes them as the primary truths, and repeats them ad nauseum. All his challenges are "guesses."

You can't resolve any discussion with Frank, because his guesses are only opinions based on his own perceptions and not on any basis that he can support.

JTT
 
  0  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 11:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter: the Nazi-regime ended in 1945, the Stasi stopped working officially on January 13, 1990.

Both got better offers to come work for the USA.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 11:58 am
@cicerone imposter,
Frank is big on providing sources for his meanderings.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank wrote,
Quote:
You have no idea of whether or not Germany has spied on its allies or any other countries...and neither do I. I have said it seems that all countries have spied on other countries...and I stand by that comment.

I freely acknowledge that it is an opinion...and only an opinion, based on what I have read about world history.


How Frank was able to arrive at his conclusion based on his reading about world history is the mystery. Especially since Walter has stated over and over that it's against the law in Germany, and has been for many decades. Walter understands his country's laws. How does Frank conclude otherwise?

Guesses.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Germany has not spied on its allies and to suggest that it would is libellous.


You have no idea of whether or not Germany has spied on its allies or any other countries...and neither do I. I have said it seems that all countries have spied on other countries...and I stand by that comment.

I freely acknowledge that it is an opinion...and only an opinion, based on what I have read about world history.
You've got your opinion based on what you've read about world history.

Perhaps, you read a bit about the latest history as well? I mean, the Nazi-regime ended in 1945, the Stasi stopped working officially on January 13, 1990.
It certainly might be that one of two secret service or the military agency spies on our allies. For instance, it is well-known, that the German Federal Intelligence Service follows the communication of Afghan government very closely and is quite active from embassies in Arab countries, too.



So you agree with me...Germany may or may not spy on allies.

I do not know; I have suggested that Izzy does not know; and I now know that you do not know.

No disagreement on this part at all.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:32 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
In no way is it libelous.

It is, and she's coming for you.
http://wikilerner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/merkel-1.jpg


Even Walter, who is very well informed, does not know if they spy on allies. (MY GUESS: They do...and so does every other country with the capability to do so.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:34 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Rand Paul to sue Obama administration over NSA
CNN -- Dana Davidsen

(CNN) - Sen. Rand Paul will sue President Barack Obama and top officials in the National Security Agency over surveillance.

Paul's political action committee, RandPAC, announced plans by the Kentucky senator and potential 2016 presidential candidate to file a class-action challenge on Wednesday.

The suit also will name National Intelligence Director James Clapper, outgoing NSA Director Keith Alexander, and FBI Director James Comey.

A firebrand in the Republican Party whose brand of conservatism embraces Libertarian ideals, Paul is an ardent critic of U.S. surveillance programs, which he says infringe on basic civil liberties under the Constitution.

"The Bill of Rights protects all citizens from general warrants. I expect this case to go all the way to the Supreme Court and I predict the American people will win," Paul said in a statement.



Terrific. Paul Rand would love to be president...and I hope this is the vehicle that gets him his party's nomination.

I HOPE IT!
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
On late afternoon, the EU-Parliament's civil-liberties committee backed the suspension of agreements with US in response to spying revelations by former intelligence worker.

As already hinted above, it rejected a call for the European Union to protect Edward Snowden against possible prosecution or extradition.

The report was adopted with 32 votes in favour, seven against and 17 abstentions.

A rival amendment proposed by MEPs from the centre-left Socialists and the Democrats calling on EU member states, without naming Snowden, to "thoroughly examine the possibility of granting whistleblowers international protection from prosecution" was adopted. (Source: German media)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You can't hold Frank on any of his opinions, because it's only an "opinion" and not based on facts. He guesses a lot, and believes them as the primary truths, and repeats them ad nauseum. All his challenges are "guesses."

You can't resolve any discussion with Frank, because his guesses are only opinions based on his own perceptions and not on any basis that he can support.




Glad to see you are so interested in me that you are an expert in how I operate, ci.

Yes...I do guess a lot.

No...I do not do believing.

People have been having discussions with me on the Internet for 15 years now.

Keep ignoring me! It is hilarious!!! Wink
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote,
Quote:
You have no idea of whether or not Germany has spied on its allies or any other countries...and neither do I. I have said it seems that all countries have spied on other countries...and I stand by that comment.

I freely acknowledge that it is an opinion...and only an opinion, based on what I have read about world history.


How Frank was able to arrive at his conclusion based on his reading about world history is the mystery. Especially since Walter has stated over and over that it's against the law in Germany, and has been for many decades. Walter understands his country's laws. How does Frank conclude otherwise?

Guesses.


Ah...you are finally out...and answering me directly rather than pretending you are ignoring me.

What a breath of fresh air.

I arrive at my conclusion because it appears to me that history indicates that all states spy on all others...as long as they have the capability to do so.

I will assume that your comment that it is against the law in Germany to do so...and that would stop them from doing so....was just kidding around.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

On late afternoon, the EU-Parliament's civil-liberties committee backed the suspension of agreements with US in response to spying revelations by former intelligence worker.

As already hinted above, it rejected a call for the European Union to protect Edward Snowden against possible prosecution or extradition.

The report was adopted with 32 votes in favour, seven against and 17 abstentions.

A rival amendment proposed by MEPs from the centre-left Socialists and the Democrats calling on EU member states, without naming Snowden, to "thoroughly examine the possibility of granting whistleblowers international protection from prosecution" was adopted. (Source: German media)


Interesting vote, Walter.

Certainly lots of abstentions!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 01:02 pm
I'm sure Frank has more knowledge about the NSA than the top tech executives who are seeking limits on US spying. They include top executives from Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Linkedin, Facebook, AOL, and Twitter.

Today's newspaper article is titled "Top tech executives seek limits on spying."

They all do it does not make it legal in this country.

Frank's guesses must be more factual on this issue. Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 01:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm sure Frank has more knowledge about the NSA than the top tech executives who are seeking limits on US spying. They include top executives from Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Linkedin, Facebook, AOL, and Twitter.

Today's newspaper article is titled "Top tech executives seek limits on spying."

They all do it does not make it legal in this country.

Frank's guesses must be more factual on this issue. Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk


Hey ci. Still following every word I write.

Good for you. Smart move, in fact. Wink

BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 01:34 pm
No matter how people like Frank bury their heads in the ground more and more people are taking note of what is happening to US freedoms and the constitution slowly becoming a dead letter.

Quote:


http://rt.com/news/world-press-freedom-index-662/

Reuters / Gary Cameron
Tags
Press freedom in the United States has suffered “one of the most significant declines” in the last year after sacrificing information to national security, with the NSA surveillance scandal topping the list of wrongdoing.

That’s according to The World Press Freedom Index for 2014 from Reporters Without Borders (RWB), which put the US in 46th place out of 180 countries, a 13-place drop from last year.

This time American misdemeanors were in the report’s chapter on “Information sacrificed to national security and surveillance,” which says: “Countries that pride themselves on being democracies and respecting the rule of law” too often sacrifice the freedom of speech to “an overly broad and abusive interpretation of national security needs.”

“Investigative journalism often suffers as a result” of a “disturbing retreat from democratic practices,” the RWB report said.


World’s best countries for press freedom*
1. Finland
2. Netherlands
3. Norway
4. Luxembourg
5. Andorra
6. Liechtenstein
7. Denmark
8. Iceland
9. New Zealand
10. Sweden

World’s worst countries for press freedom*
170. Cuba
171. Lao People’s Democratic Republic
172. Sudan
173. Islamic republic of Iran
174. Vietnam
175. China
176. Somalia
177. Syrian Arab Republic
178. Turkmenistan
179. Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
180. Eritrea

*Source: Reporters Without Borders, The World Press Freedom Index for 2014.
The RWB recalled all recent major assaults on the freedom of press in the US, be it the conviction of US Army whistleblower Bradley (Chelsea) Manning or the manhunt for former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, whose revelations about pervasive worldwide surveillance conducted by the US intelligence’s made WikiLeaks publications of Manning’s files pale by comparison.

Another notorious attack on journalism mentioned by the RWB was the seizure of “thousands and thousands” of Associated Press phone calls by the US Justice Department, which was searching for a leak in the CIA.

The RWB recalled scandalous cases of freelance digital journalist Barrett Brown, who now faces 105 years in prison for sharing a link to stolen classified data, and New York Times reporter James Risen, who also faces a term in jail if he does not testify against CIA whistleblower Jeffrey Sterling.

Throughout 2013 a number of US journalists have been issued with subpoenas and pressured to reveal off-the-record sources they relied upon, which prompted some activists to call for a media shield law to protect journalists’ sources and thousands of internet-involved organizations to organize protest against massive electronic surveillance.

In 2012, the US fell even lower, to 47th position, after tumbling 27 positions – a result of a series of arrests of high-profile journalists during the Occupy Wall Street protests.

Freedom of speech in Britain, a close US ally, by comparison, was viewed as less restricted, with the country in 33rd place. The UK fell back three places after the exposure of deep collaboration between American and British security and intelligence services in suppressing the freedom of the press.

While UK’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) agency actually taught American NSA how to conduct online espionage, Britain has been evaluated quite mildly, only suffering a minor decline in the index. The only incident mentioned by the RWB was the detention of David Miranda, the partner of ex-Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald who revealed NSA spy programs.
JTT
 
  0  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 01:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You really addressed the issues CI raised, frank. Head on like always.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 01:48 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

No matter how people like Frank bury their heads in the ground more and more people are taking note of what is happening to US freedoms and the constitution slowly becoming a dead letter.


I am not burying my head in the sand, Bill...and this thread is not about me. It is about Snowden.

We have different opinions about how this should be handled.

You see him as a hero...I most assuredly do not.

You see him as someone helping to preserve the freedoms we have...I see him as someone who may have inflicted a serious blow to those freedoms.

You see the ancillary issue of privacy vastly different from the way I do.

But you have to demean the views that differ from yours...where I am willing to acknowledge that they exist...and that reasonable people can disagree.

And even not so reasonable people like you can disagree.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 02:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
As has been pointed out before, you're very heavy on guesses and opinions, and very light on facts.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 02:12 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

As has been pointed out before, you're very heavy on guesses and opinions, and very light on facts.


That mostly is what we share here...opinions.

As for facts...well..."facts" are hard to come by...although I'd be willing to accept these if you will:

2 + 2 = 4 in base ten.

The capital of France is Paris.

The so-called Allies faction won World War II...and the so-called Axis powers lost.

Mercury is an element...and a planet...and a Roman god.

Farts stink.

The Earth is an average of 93,000,000 miles from Sol...our star.

I often post in A2K.



Okay?
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 02:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
2 + 2 = 4 in base ten.

The capital of France is Paris.

The so-called Allies faction won World War II...and the so-called Axis powers lost.

Mercury is an element...and a planet...and a Roman god.

Farts stink.

The Earth is an average of 93,000,000 miles from Sol...our star.


An the US government is using NSA to do massive spying on the American people a fact repeat a fact that the government had try to hide from the American people by way of a secret stamp.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 02:27 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
2 + 2 = 4 in base ten.

The capital of France is Paris.

The so-called Allies faction won World War II...and the so-called Axis powers lost.

Mercury is an element...and a planet...and a Roman god.

Farts stink.

The Earth is an average of 93,000,000 miles from Sol...our star.


An the US government is using NSA to do massive spying on the American people a fact repeat a fact that the government had try to hide from the American people by way of a secret stamp.


Oh, that terrible US government. You really think it is disgusting...don't you.

You ought to consider moving to someplace where that doesn't happen...so you can be happy. Wink

"Secret stamp!!!"

Do you buy them at the post office by the grassy knoll...or the one near the crop circles?

 

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