Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

At some point in the history of humanity...in order for societies to function...the rights of individuals to privacy and to license started being restricted. In fact, the rights were slowly, inexorably given up by people who wanted to live in a civilized society.

The process continues today.

Well, that started in 1933 with the Nazis. And than again from 1949 onwards in the GDR.

True, those rights were given up because people wanted to live ... well, perhaps "undisturbed". But they had had taken blinkers on, and I actually wouldn't call it - generally - a civilised society.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
At some point in the history of humanity...in order for societies to function...the rights of individuals to privacy and to license started being restricted. In fact, the rights were slowly, inexorably given up by people who wanted to live in a civilized society.

The process continues today.

Well, that started in 1933 with the Nazis. And than again from 1949 onwards in the GDR.

No, Walter...it started a very long time before that. It started in times before recorded history...when people banded together and gave up privacy for the safety and comfort of many.

Quote:

True, those rights were given up because people wanted to live ... well, perhaps "undisturbed".

Actually, the appear to have been "given up" because it made sense to do so. Groupings...which of necessity requires the ceding of privacy...made more sense than trying to go it alone.

Quote:

But they had had taken blinkers on, and I actually wouldn't call it - generally - a civilised society.

You are not thinking now, Walter.

Give it more thought.

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Frank doesn't really believe any of the **** he is spouting. He's just exceedingly childish in his outlook on his country. Note the virtual absence of Americans discussing this vital issue.

When you hear all your life that you dad or mom is a gift from god almighty, it's not easy to allow that either is a mass murderer even with voluminous proof.

Look at CI. He's so conflicted, he's all over the map.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

...but the fact is that everything points to an endless erosion of privacy with no way to reasonably bring it under control. And I see it as a necessary step in the further evolution toward what we suppose we already are: A truly intelligent species.

I agree with that. But I am the only person I know of who thinks the Brave New World Huxley pictured is utopian and not dystopian. In such a world I would not be exiled to an island to join other malcontents. I would, as Bob advises--take what I could gather from coincidence.

The abolishing of privacy in 1984 was done for another reason altogether and was a burden which it wasn't in BNW.

Both books are flawed because they assume a patriarchal society and all the pointers nowadays are towards the opposite. A female Bishop of the C. of E. has been voted for this very day and she is promised, fully kitted out in robes and sanctity, before Christmas.

An intelligent species being the goal. In fact a truly intelligent species. What else when a man with 3 significant females to deal with is elected.

Apisa does "truly" a lot. It betrays a lack of confidence imo. Although it appears to show that Apisa knows what truly intelligent means---nudge-nudge--you need to be truly intelligent for that-- as opposed to common or garden intelligence such as wot we wankers have. And he's as thick as a large stack of telephone directories.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank: I know you have to pretend you didn't read this...but that only adds to the fun I am having at your expense.
---------

And the spectacular irony in this is that Frank doesn't even recognize that this childish ignore game is played out here at A2K largely by Americans, the world's great debaters.

Oh, and Izzy.

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@spendius,

Spendi: Apisa does "truly" a lot. It betrays a lack of confidence imo. Although it appears to show that Apisa knows what truly intelligent means---nudge-nudge--you need to be truly intelligent for that-- as opposed to common or garden intelligence such as wot we wankers have. And he's as thick as a large stack of telephone directories.

He is American. How are you supposed to learn debate and different points of view when the sum total of debate consists of listening to how great the USA is and collectively muttering a chorus of un-huhs.

Consider how large is the number of ADULTS!!! who won't discuss the volumes of scholarly work that describe a very different USA than that of common knowledge.

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@spendius,

I think Frank would rather continue to be an ostrich than open his eyes. he's lying to himself, and he's believing it. Some people find reality too frightening.

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@JTT,

Quote:

Consider how large is the number of ADULTS!!! who won't discuss the volumes of scholarly work that describe a very different USA than that of common knowledge.

I've read a good deal of that sort of thing but it couldn't overpower the image of the USA I got from American movies at an earlier age. The Daily News is doing its best though. The wonderfulness is fading I'll admit. Possibly what I thought was the wonderfulness was an illusion.

I've read Thorstein Veblen. The "let's get down to brass tacks" man. Very unpopular in academic social circles.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

.who want to piss and moan and lament that the US is a dictatorship...

Strange I do not know of anyone who had stated it had gone that far off the rail yet, just heading in that direction as fast as some of our rulers can push it that way.

Now how free we are at the moment depend of how must of a blackmail network the intelligence community had set up to date.

We have no real way of knowing if Obama who was for placing limits on the NSA before being elected change his mind after getting a visit from someone in the NSA similar to visits that Hoover had with US presidents/congressmen in the past.

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@izzythepush,

Frank doesn't do "believing." He lives on guesses, and wonders if his reality is real! LOL

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@cicerone imposter,

There are a whole lot of 'Muricans doing the ostrich, CI, even you.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

We have no real way of knowing if Obama who was for placing limits on the NSA before being elected change his mind after getting a visit from someone in the NSA similar to visits that Hoover had with US presidents in the past.

There was a story I read, Bill, about Obarmy attending a relative's wedding in England. Before he was known. He was in the pub for the stag night when a stripper was announced. A fairly common addition to such proceedings. We were informed in the report by a witness that he made an excuse and left.

Which suggests to me that he was running for office from a long way back and was alert to the sort of thing you are alluding to and is likely squeaky-clean. If he had the ambition to make a run he would know, in that pub, that if he was successful his staying to leer would then come out such is the appetite for salacious slush, innuendo and smear.

1 Reply

@spendius,

On behalf of the NSA, I should point out that it's part of DOD with no power to prosecute, the FBI is part of the Treasury. Hoover lead the FBI for many more years than he should have. He hung onto power by gathering information and blackmailing elected officials. Hoover was a festering boil, and the US should have had him lanced.

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@spendius,

Spendius: I've read a good deal of that sort of thing but it couldn't overpower the image of the USA I got from American movies at an earlier age.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt thee most successful propaganda scheme the world has ever known.

Hell, it even has JPB duped!

Thomas is caught square betwee a rock and a very hard place.

Frank A and many others are in their own deep state of denial from which they will never recover.

Spendi: The wonderfulness is fading I'll admit. Possibly what I thought was the wonderfulness was an illusion.

Possibly, Spendi? And doesn't this massive delusion intrigue you?

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@glitterbag,

When you used to work at the NSA, was there any mechanism that would have prevented you from blackmailing someone based on information collected at your work?

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@glitterbag,

Gb: On behalf of the NSA, I should point out that it's part of DOD with no power to prosecute, the FBI is part of the Treasury.

Who would want the criminals to prosecute themselves? "On behalf of " indeed!
We know that the arm of the DOD that can prosecute never does. I dare say there are millions of events that could have seen a prosecution mounted and there never was.

The criminals are holding the fort and an exceedingly strong fort it is, backed by an exceedingly strong executive branch that has its own myriad bands of war criminals, terrorists, felons, rapists, torturers, you name it bad and it's to be found in both areas, in spades!

Then we have congress ... !

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@glitterbag,

Gb: Hoover lead the FBI for many more years than he should have. He hung onto power by gathering information and blackmailing elected officials. Hoover was a festering boil, and the US should have had him lanced.

----------------

Are you asking us to believe that this stinking cesspool was somehow different than the other, aforementioned stinking cesspools, glitter?

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@spendius,

You wrote,

Quote:

And he's as thick as a large stack of telephone directories.

Worth a requote. Mr. Green

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@cicerone imposter,

If you were open minded enough to read everything, CI, just consider how your horizons might expand.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I think Frank would rather continue to be an ostrich than open his eyes. he's lying to himself, and he's believing it. Some people find reality too frightening.

That is nonsense, Izzy. I am not lying to myself...I am not an ostrich...and I do not find anything being discussed here "too frightening."

Apparently you have to think those things about people who simply disagree with you.

Snowden is charged with violating some serious laws here in the US...and he should stand trial. He has refuge right now...and if that asylum is continued, he certainly has the right to continue there.

But if he is the hero some of you want to make him to be...he will come back to the US and attempt to clear his name.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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