Snowdon is a dummy

@Moment-in-Time,

MiT: Yes, Snoweden is a hero to many with a somewhat spite against the US for whatever reason. Concurrently, among our many foreign allies, there are those who admire the US very much but yet seemingly look for flaws and are happy when the powerful US seem to have stumbled.

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MiT is flustered.

I've never before heard that term for slaughtering 10 plus million innocents just since WWII; "stumbling", is it?

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@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

No one in the US of stature recommends amnesty for Snowden

Except the New Yorker and the New York Times. And I am sure many others.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Much has changed since the Espionage Act of 1917. I think there's a world of difference when an American citizen reveals that our government has broken the laws, and nobody has been charged with any crimes, but the government pursues any citizen they can classify as a terrorist and take away their Constitutional rights to legal council.

How else will we learn that the government has broken laws against our Constitution?

The government holds all the cards; not a comforting position for anyone who reveals government secrets of breaking laws - especially against our Constitution.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

It's also non Americans who have granted Snowden asylum.

Tell me about it!

Quote:

Americans don't rule the world anymore.

I never believed the US ruled the world.....that is your interpretation. Before the fall of the Soviet Union, I'd always believed the former USSR with its powerful nuclear facility, the UK, and the US were pretty powerful nations in their own right, but not standing alone, the US need these allies. We have powerful allies in France, Italy, Britain, and other western nations and this is what has made the US appear to be more powerful than she really is. But I will admit the US' power is waning as the newly developing world, China, gains the ascendancy

Quote:

You're going convince a lot more non Americans that your legal system, (which still practices the barbarity of capital punishment) gives fair trials. Judging from the responses of other non Americans on this thread, that won't be easy

Each country has its faults and some of these cultures mature faster than others. There are US groups who oppose capital punishment, but being the society we are, each state makes its own laws regarding this "barbarity." But what does capital punishment in America have to do with the Snowden topic?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I joke a few days ago that you were in love with me, and used the term "unrequited" at that occasion. And lo and behold, today you argue the exact same thing and use the exact same word... I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Olivier...the term "unrequited" it is a very common expression. If you want to take credit for teaching me a word I have used often...and I have used it often...you might consider taking credit for "teaching" me to use the word "the." You used it earlier...I used it here. So by all means, consider it "sincere flattery" and take the credit...especially if it helps make you happy.

I want you to be happy.

In any case, I am not sure why you want to do this kind of thing so often, Olivier.

You get battered every time.

You must love pain.

Quite a combination…if you find the right club!

I’m sure they have them in France.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Here's another example of the USA "stumbling".

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I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these
things to the children.

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More stumbling.

The USA is the only "state in the world which has been condemned by the highest international authorities for international terrorism, namely the World Court and Security Council," for its war crimes and acts of terrorism against Nicaragua.

Did the USA learn from this stumble? Nope, it ignored the ruling and continued its crimes against Nicaragua. Not so many years later we have the war crimes of Iraq and Afghanistan, the illegal incursions into other sovereign nations by this stumbling band of criminals.

And here we have MiT and Apisa making excuses for these arch criminals who go on stumbling.

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@Frank Apisa,

Still, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I must thank you for it... Wink

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

No one in the US of stature recommends amnesty for Snowden

Quote:

Oliver5 wrote:
Except the New Yorker and the New York Times. And I am sure many others.

I wasn't clear enough in my response. I wasn't referring to the media who is forever out for a story. I should have said no one of statue in the US government. Rand Paul came out with Snowden is a hero, but the Wall Street Journal said he "was not fit to be commander-in-chief." Paul quickly backtracked.

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@Frank Apisa,

Same ole Apisa ****.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

I wasn't clear enough in my response. I wasn't referring to the media who is forever out for a story. I should have said no one of statue in the US government. Rand Paul came out with Snowden is a hero, but the Wall Street Journal said he "was not fit to be commander-in-chief." Paul quickly backtracked.

You mean that government that has been exposed by Snowden as mass spying on the American people and the world? That same government that monitors each and every of your and my phone calls, email, snail mail, web link clicked, etc. etc.? Why would they pardon somebody who is threatening their power?

I predict that no US politician will ever be able to break the NSA, because anyone (e.g. Rand Paul) who would be naive enough to argue against the NSA in a political campaign will have all his secrets quickly exposed, if he persists. Rand Paul backtracked, huh? How do we know it is not because the NSA had something on him?...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Still, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I must thank you for it...

Whatever brings some light into your life, Olivier. Wink

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@Olivier5,

It's not only that. Obama has the power to call anyone a terrorist, and all their Constitutionally protected rights will disappear.

That's the perfect description of a tyrannical government. Please prove this wrong!

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Ci wrote:

Quote:

It's not only that. Obama has the power to call anyone a terrorist, and all their Constitutionally protected rights will disappear.

That's the perfect description of a tyrannical government. Please prove this wrong!

I’m sure ci would have stood in a public square in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was in power and said the same thing about Hussein.

Right?

I mean…that WAS a tyrannical government…and the US is a tyrannical government…and ci is simply a courageous individual who is willing to dare to stand up to tyrannical governments that way!

No wonder he considers Snowden a hero. He and Snowden are made of that same stiff stuff…both willing to stand up to despots and their despotic governments.

As MiT and Rev have both said: The people who despise the US...and who revel in its embarrassment...are the people championing Snowden on this issue.

So let’s hear it for ci and Snowden. Hip, hip, phooey.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank: i mean…that WAS a tyrannical government…and

Installed and supported by the USA. What is the bastion of freedom doing installing and supporting tyrannical governments?

Frank: No wonder he considers Snowden a hero. He and Snowden are made of that same stiff stuff…both willing to stand up to despots and their despotic governments.

You've nailed it, Frank. It's despots that have the necessary apparatuses to spy on citizens. That's how despots stay in power.

You are becoming more and more unhinged.

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@cicerone imposter,

Did Frankie boy say anything worth reading? I think not! LOL

Did he answer my question?

Quote:

That's the perfect description of a tyrannical government. Please prove this wrong!

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@cicerone imposter,

You ******* chickenshits are supposed to be made of sterner stuff than this,CI.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

BERLIN (AP) — Edward Snowden is calling for international help to persuade the U.S. to drop its espionage charges against him, according to a letter a German lawmaker released Friday after meeting the American in Moscow.

Snowden said he would like to testify before the U.S. Congress about National Security Agency surveillance and may be willing to help German officials investigate alleged U.S. spying in Germany, Hans-Christian Stroebele, a lawmaker with Germany's opposition Greens, told a press conference.

But Snowden indicated in the letter that neither would happen unless the U.S. dropped its espionage charges — a policy shift the Obama administration has given no indication it would make.

source

He wants the charges dropped before he would testify in congress.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Capital punishment, and the treatment of prisoners, says a lot about a country. It serves as a benchmark, and should be taken into consideration when talking extradition.

Compare Bradley Manning's treatment with Anna Chapman's.

There are plenty of people on either side of the Atlantic who feel that Snowden did a public service, as much for the American public as the European. Had, in the UK at least, Snowden been working for a private company, a bank, or arms manufacturer say, there is whistleblowing legislation to protect him. How can he have a fair trial when the government, (or judge appointed by the government,) can deem what evidence is admissible? Half his brief will be thrown out before he even arrives in court.

Those people who support Snowden aren't motivated by anti-Americanism, but by a hope that America could actually be better.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

a policy shift the Obama administration has given no indication it would make.

I have seen some "indications" that it might.

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@izzythepush,

Better is the in the eye of the beholder. The simple fact is that Snowden broke the law when he stole classified documents he had no business stealing, regardless of any good it did.

He has already leaked (or press did it for him) most of the justification he would use anyway to the world, so I am not sure what you guys are talking about when you say they wouldn't let him admit evidence what evidence you guys are talking about.

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Snowdon is a dummy

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