Snowdon is a dummy

@revelette2,

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What I find objectionable about Snowden is that he took countless information exposing our spying techniques to who knows who, who in turn can now use them against us. I don't take his word (or other countries who are mad at us for this) word that he only gave portions to the "free press." He didn't just simply blow the whistle, he stole stuff and took of out of the country, to Russia and Japan, countries not that friendly to us.

He exposed that our government was breaking the laws. Most of us now know that our government did break the laws, not only against American citizens, but have exposed our government's spying on our allies.

That you don't take the word that he only gave portions to the "free press," is your personal opinion. It doesn't have any support for your opinions.

That he "took it out of the country" was the only option he had. You're about as ignorant as Frank on this score.

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@revelette2,

Rev: However, to give credit where it is due, we do give a lot of monetary aid to poor and hungry of the world,

----------------

Another of those pernicious myths, Rev. The USA is the stingiest or close to the stingiest of the first world nations. US "aid" is tied aid which usually costs the poor countries dearly. Most USA aid is military in nature and the vast majority goes to support your brutal dictators, who are there to help the USA steal.

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@revelette2,

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/10/25/obama-putin-american-exceptionalism-column/3181829/

Oliver Stone: The Myth of American Exceptionalism

...

Americans, however, can't forget what they never learned in the first place. The National Report Card issued in June 2011 found that high school seniors tested worse in U.S. history than in any other field, including math and science. Only 12% were judged "proficient."

Devoid of historical knowledge, Americans substitute myths like exceptionalism -- a belief that dates back to John Winthrop's 1630 declaration that the new colony will be a "city upon a hill" for all the world to follow. Exceptionalism underlay embrace of "manifest destiny." Woodrow Wilson stated it most directly when he gushed after the Paris Peace conference, "At last the world knows America as the savior of the world!"

The belief in America's unique altruism and single-minded commitment to freedom and democracy propelled the early Cold War, despite George Kennan's top secret 1948 memo explaining: "We have about 50% of the world's wealth, but only 6.3% of its population. . . . We cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity. ... To do so, we ... should cease to talk about vague and ... unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization ... we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts."

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@cicerone imposter,

And China and Russia. Prove me wrong. Neither you or I know to whom he sold that information. And what better way to cover your ass than to give SOME information to the news media who are running interference for him because of the money in the information he gave them.

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@spendius,

The question is did he steal secret information from the government. And did he sell it to foreign powers? Congress said the government could do its information gathering. Bush and his cronies were the ones with congress who passed this law.

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@JPB,

But did he give it to only the free press and did he give all of it or only that portion he dident sell to foreign powers?

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@RABEL222,

To even mention that "he sold info to China and Russia" are charges without any evidence. That's all high charged accusations against an individual who risked his life to tell us about the NSA, and the government's illegal activities.

Why do you people insist on spreading this rumor? Isn't he innocent until proven guilty? Or, do you decide who's guilty? You think that's fair to Snowden?

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@cicerone imposter,

How about Russia and China?

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@RABEL222,

How about Russia and China?

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@cicerone imposter,

Than why dosent he come back and defend himself. Could it be he did sell information to foreign powers. I have as much right to my opinions as you have to yours and just as much proof. If you want to claim a thief as a hero thats your right.

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@cicerone imposter,

Come on CI. Now your trying to play games. Are they our friends or opposed to most things we believe. Governments, not people.

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@RABEL222,

We trade with both countries.

You wrote,

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... just as much proof.

No, you have no proof.
When you accuse anyone of a crime, you should at least have some proof.

Are you a child molester?

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Listening to German chancellors' mobile phones makes US-American citizens safer and is a big contribution to the protection against global terrorist attacks - isn't it, Frank?

Our justice minister and Merkel a have different opinion. The chancellor's spokesperson said that it wasn't primary about spying on the actual and former chancellors' phone. It were about the protection of people in Germany - and about trust in a partnership. When this trust is damaged, he said, "not more, but less security" is to be found there.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Angela Merkel is a crypto-Muslim. Wink

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

The only bull-shitter on a2k is you, Frank. You're too stupid to understand what our country is all about.

Ahhh...finally the charade has been dropped.

I am not stupid...and I am not misunderstanding the US.

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Show me where I have ever said I "hated America?" You can't! Why? Because you think of things by your own imagination that doesn't exist.

Things can be inferred, ci. Look it up. You'll see.

You are a chronic complainer and whiner. Want some cheese with that whine?

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I've called you on your stupidity on many forums on a2k. They stand as they are, because I've explained them very well, and I dare anyone to challenge what I've opined about you!

I am not stupid, ci...and I do not exhibit stupidity.

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You think your "beliefs, opinions, and guesses are correct, when in fact, many have questioned them. You'll never "get it," because of your stubbornness and inability to learn new facts and information no matter who presents them.

You giving a lecture on stubbornness is like Chris Christie giving a lecture on Lean Cuisine. Get off it. And I do not think I am always correct...and often, when shown to be incorrect, acknowledge it with no trouble.

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You are both stubborn and dumb, because you can't even take the hints people try to explain to you.

I am not dumb. I do tend to be tenacious...which can be mistaken for stubbornness.

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You're wrong most of the time. Your repetition of what you believe doesn't make them true; only makes them nauseous.

I am not "wrong most of the time." And I do not do believing.

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You're a ******* joke on a2k.

I don't think so.

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BTW, I've been posting about you from the people who cut and paste from your posts.

Sure you are!!!!!! YOU know whether you have peeked...and you almost certainly have. YOU know! Wink

In any case...the last thing in the world you are doing is to ignore me. And I love it!

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Nothing new; you're like an old lady who berates everybody who challenges you.

You are the "old lady" type, ci. I defend things that I propose when they are challenged. That seems to bother you. But that probably is the "old lady" part of you in action.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Well said. The real facts are that I've been blessed in this country of opportunity. The right jobs as the right time seems to have played a good part of my working career, and I've been able to provide my family with a pretty good standard of living. I've been retired since 1998, and have enjoyed world travel. That means that this country has allowed us to have enough wealth to live very comfortable lives. Why would I hate this country?

Excellent question!!!

You ought to give that more consideration...especially during your almost endless tirades against its government.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Worth repeating - just for Frank.

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You have read nothing. You wallow in ignorance. Look at what they did to Bradley Manning. These are USA governments that have illegal rendition, secret torture sites, Guantanamo, where everyone gets a speedy trial.

But Frank keeps on supporting the war criminals, the terrorists, the felons.

No...I am the one who champions a fair trial for the accused...

...something you seem to want to avoid.

Perhaps it is because of your very jaded view of America and its government.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

No...I am the one who champions a fair trial for the accused...

...something you seem to want to avoid.

Sorry but the GOVERNMENT does not have a moral right to break the laws and the constitution in secret and then used the courts system to punish those who reveal those facts even if they had misused the secret stamp to hide their crimes.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
No...I am the one who champions a fair trial for the accused...

...something you seem to want to avoid.

Sorry but the GOVERNMENT does not have a moral right to break the laws and the constitution in secret and then used the courts system to punish those who reveal those facts even if they had misused the secret stamp to hide their crimes.

But I am the one who champions a fair trial for Snowden...

...and a fair trial for Snowden seems to be something you want to avoid.

And, Bill...a fair trial is the determinant of whether or not Snowden broke the laws of which he is accused of breaking...and whether or not what he did is or is not justifiable.

NOT YOU!

There is just no getting away from that.

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@Frank Apisa,

Kinda miserable for your side of this issue, isn't it?

You are arguing that the government SHOULD FOLLOW THE LAW.

But that is what they would be doing if they brought Snowden to trial on the charges that have been brought.

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Snowdon is a dummy

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