42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 02:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

So...you are going to continue to insist that Snowden would not be able to plead "not guilty" at a trial should one be held.
From the report in the NYT
Quote:
JAN. 23, 2014 - WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said Thursday that the United States was willing to discuss how the criminal case against Edward J. Snowden would be handled, but only if Mr. Snowden pleaded guilty first.

Mr. Holder, speaking at a question-and-answer event at the University of Virginia, did not specify the guilty pleas the Justice Department would expect before it would open talks with Mr. Snowden’s lawyers. And the attorney general reiterated that the United States was not willing to offer clemency to Mr. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who has leaked documents that American officials have said threaten national security.

“Instead,” Mr. Holder said in response to a question at the university’s Miller Center, “were he coming back to the U.S. to enter a plea, we would engage with his lawyers.”
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 02:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So...you are going to continue to insist that Snowden would not be able to plead "not guilty" at a trial should one be held.
From the report in the NYT
Quote:
JAN. 23, 2014 - WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said Thursday that the United States was willing to discuss how the criminal case against Edward J. Snowden would be handled, but only if Mr. Snowden pleaded guilty first.

Mr. Holder, speaking at a question-and-answer event at the University of Virginia, did not specify the guilty pleas the Justice Department would expect before it would open talks with Mr. Snowden’s lawyers. And the attorney general reiterated that the United States was not willing to offer clemency to Mr. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who has leaked documents that American officials have said threaten national security.

“Instead,” Mr. Holder said in response to a question at the university’s Miller Center, “were he coming back to the U.S. to enter a plea, we would engage with his lawyers.”



I get all that, Walter.

Are you also suggesting that if Snowden comes back for trial...he will not be allowed to enter a plea of "not guilty?"

0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 02:49 pm
WHOA, Mike Rogers must be spitting purple.
Quote:
the Republican National Committee, basically the party's leadership, has passed a resolution condemning the NSA's bulk collection of phone records and explicitly declaring the program a violation of the 4th Amendment. More
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 02:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am wondering if you are correct or not.


That's a lie. Apisa is not wondering at all. He knows, we all know, that Snowden can come back to the US and plead "not guilty."

Which is moving off from "and getting a fair trial". (Another sneaky.) No wonder too because there's no chance of a fair trial. And Apisa knows that as we all do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 03:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Worth repeating for Frank.
Quote:
JAN. 23, 2014 - WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said Thursday that the United States was willing to discuss how the criminal case against Edward J. Snowden would be handled, but only if Mr. Snowden pleaded guilty first.


Frank continues to have difficulty with the English language. Elementary ones at that!
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 03:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Worth repeating for Frank.
Quote:
JAN. 23, 2014 - WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said Thursday that the United States was willing to discuss how the criminal case against Edward J. Snowden would be handled, but only if Mr. Snowden pleaded guilty first.


Frank continues to have difficulty with the English language. Elementary ones at that!


Apparently you are the one having difficulty, ci.

They are not willing to discuss the case unless Snowden pleads guilty.

THAT MOST ASSUREDLY does not mean he cannot come back to the US and plead "not guilty."

There just would be no discussion...no preconditions.

If there are any lawyers reading...we can get their opinions.

Me...I am not a lawyer, so I do not know.

I am interested, though.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 04:08 pm
From the CS Monitor-report: Does Edward Snowden deserve mercy?
Quote:
As a practical matter, it is hard to see the Obama administration backing down and offering Snowden a deal – just as it is hard to see Snowden accepting any prison time at the moment. The possibility of clemency may not be clear until challenges to certain NSA activities play out in the courts.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 04:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Several groups and people who are familiar with NSA also said what they are doing is illegal. To get over this problem, the SCOTUS has to make a decision as to its legality.

One branch of our government should not be able to do whatever it pleases when it questions our Constitutional protections/freedoms.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 09:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From Yahoo News.
Quote:
In an ABC News exclusive interview David Muir sat down with Apple CEO Tim Cook as the company celebrates the 30 year anniversary of the revolutionary Macintosh computer.

As the company takes a moment to look back, Cook reveals his biggest concern regarding the National Security Agency’s surveillance program and the impact it may have on the future of his company.

“I've been pushing very, very hard to open the books and be totally transparent. Much of what has been said isn't true; there is no back door, the government doesn't have access to our servers. They would have to cart us out in a box for that and that just will not happen.”

But when it comes to discussing future Apple products, Cook is far less interested in transparency.

“I’m not going to get into that,” says Cook, “but you can always bet that there’s something around the corner.”
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 09:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I am not a lawyer as everyone well knows, but I don't see how the courts are going to be able make it so Snowden will fall under a whistle protection clause. I mean think about it, he stole classified documents and gave them to unauthorized persons. If he merely reported the wrong doing to someone, then I could see it, but in this case I don't.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 11:28 am
@revelette2,
He gave it to the media; you know, "freedom of the press."
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 12:18 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I am not a lawyer as everyone well knows, but I don't see how the courts are going to be able make it so Snowden will fall under a whistle protection clause. I mean think about it, he stole classified documents and gave them to unauthorized persons. If he merely reported the wrong doing to someone, then I could see it, but in this case I don't.


You are almost right, Revelette...but the presumption of innocence must prevail. He is charged with stealing classified documents...and releasing them to unauthorized parties.

I, for one, want to see him get a fair trial...with the opportunity to clear his good name.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 04:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Bottom line was he was not authorized to take them or give them to anybody.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 05:53 pm
@revelette2,
If nobody exposes government breaking the laws, who will? YOU? Mr. Green
The government breaking the laws that destroys our Constitution is a worst crime.

You are welcome to believe whatever you wish on this topic.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 06:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
revel is unaware that ww2 was to stop Hitler breaking the laws. He wasn't breaking any where he was.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 09:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm not a lawyer either, but you usually aren't offered a plea agreement as an incentive to plead not guilty. He absolutely has the right to plead not guilty in a court of law but that means a trial. I don't think you get clemency prior to conviction, I believe it's normally offered after a trial in which a jury finds someone guilty.

Mr. Snowden has sought asylum in the workers paradise. How many folks in this country thinks that Russia is our pal and wouldn't let Snowden reveal classified information vital to the US even if he paid them.

So what do the rest of you think the government should do? How about we bring Snowden back to Washington, give him a hero welcome and make him Deputy Director of NSA. He can't be Director because that position is always held by a flag officer.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 09:22 pm
@glitterbag,
If the government doesn't follow our Constitution, what makes people think they're going to give Snowden a fair trial?

They already made a condition for his return; plead guilty.

Would you trust our government under similar circumstances? I wouldn't.

From rt.com.
Quote:
The Obama administration has won the latest battle in their fight to indefinitely detain US citizens and foreigners suspected of being affiliated with terrorists under the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012.

Congress granted the president the authority to arrest and hold individuals accused of terrorism without due process under the NDAA, but Mr. Obama said in an accompanying signing statement that he will not abuse these privileges to keep American citizens imprisoned indefinitely. These assurances, however, were not enough to keep a group of journalists and human rights activists from filing a federal lawsuit last year, which contested the constitutionality of Section 1021, the particular provision that provides for such broad power.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 09:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't trust traitors, and that asshole is not a whistle blower. Was Aldrich Ames a patriot?
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 09:27 pm
@glitterbag,
Who are you calling a traitor? The government that destroys our Constitution, or the citizen who reveals they are breaking the laws?
glitterbag
 
  2  
Sat 25 Jan, 2014 10:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You really don't know if he uncovered law breaking, you only have the hysteria surrounding his theft of an unknown amount of classified material. If someone was running a meth lab near your local school, and lets say you are a reporter who just discovered the names of all the undercover officers getting ready to bust the lab, is it freedom of the press worthy to identify the undercover officers and where the live before the raid takes place?

If laws were broken as in Watergate and Iran Contra they will be revealed. But my belief is that Snowden sought employment strictly to round up information to bolster his big brother theory. While he was at that, he also managed to provide a ton of vital national security data to foreign entities who wish to dominate us. This isn't the Pentagon papers where the President lied about the issues in Vietnam, This was a young man with no intell background, finagling a position with a contractor, a high school dropout from a school in Anne Arundel county, Maryland who believed he was too smart to learn anything worthwhile in highschool or college.

I'm calling Snowden a traitor, he had avenues he didn't bother to use before he fled to Hong Kong and then Russia. If he wanted to be a whistle blower, he could have called Thomas Drake, Kirk Weibe or the the other NSA personnel who revealed the waste of money spent on a failed collection operation. Thomas Drake got a fair trail, why dont you think Snowden cant. He didn't want to be a whistle blower, he chose to STEAL vast amounts of information seek asylum in an unfriendly country that happens to have nuclear weapons.
 

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