40
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 10:45 am
@Frank Apisa,
I live in one of those countries, named by Frank
Quote:
"allies"



I don't think that anyone here is
Quote:
near doubled over in laughter at how we are handling this situation


To be quite honest: my less concern is how the USA is handling the situaation but that they disregard our laws.

And I don't think either that Snowden is a hero. But it was very courageous what he did.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 11:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I live in one of those countries, named by Frank
Quote:
"allies"



I don't think that anyone here is
Quote:
near doubled over in laughter at how we are handling this situation


When I said "doubled over in laughter" I was talking about people who intend harm to the United States...and who intend harm to those people Beth referred to as our "allies."

At no point did I suggest you guys were doing so...and I imagine there is a lot of indignation. But I think much of that indignation is looked at by YOUR intelligence community as much over-done. Spying on friends and enemies is hardly confined to the US.

Quote:
To be quite honest: my less concern is how the USA is handling the situaation but that they disregard our laws.


I understand that.

Quote:
And I don't think either that Snowden is a hero. But it was very courageous what he did.


If you think that, Walter...fine. I do not share that sentiment.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 11:07 am
@revelette,
Rev, see

http://able2know.org/topic/230273-1

Please provide the link to Frank, CI, OmSig and anyone else who you think might benefit.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 02:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Now, since the largest German conservative party ("Merkle's" CDU), agreed on it as well today - our parliament can finally establish a parliamentary "NSA investigation committee".
From the DW-report Germany eyes parliamentary inquiry into NSA activities
Quote:
German politicians across party borders have spoken out in favour of setting up a parliamentary inquiry into the NSA's spying activities in Germany. But what could such a panel achieve?

German coalition and opposition politicians can hardly conceal their restment as more details about the extent of the US National Security Agency's surveillance activities on private citizens are made public, including spy software for computers and mobile phones, mobile communication listening posts and manipulated USB ports. They don't necessarily agree, however, on how to tackle the scandal in Germany.

Early on, the opposition Left Party and the Greens demanded setting up a Bundestag investigative committee, regarded as the chamber's strongest weapon since, at least in theory, such a committee has the right to question an unlimited number of witnesses.

The opposition parties, however, lack the 25 percent of the vote needed to appoint a Bundestag parliamentary inquiry on their own. Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU) has more or less dismissed the idea, while the Social Democrats (SPD) have been hesitant.

But Hans-Peter Uhl, a parliamentary spokesman on interior policy for the conservatives, says the CSU remains unconvinced whether such a committee makes sense, and he questions what exactly it would investigate. "A German parliament can't monitor the actions of foreign governments," Uhl told DW, noting that it is unclear who would be called to testify. It's not likely, he said, that "you'll get Obama as a witness before a German parliamentary inquiry."
[... ... ...]
But the dispute over Snowden, observers point out, is academic, even if a parliamentary inquiry were to begin its investigations into NSA activities in Germany. As the German government refuses to grant the NSA whistleblower political asylum, it is unclear how Snowden could testify before a committee in Germany without risking extradition to the US.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 02:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm not sure what the German government can do even if they found more evidence of NSA spying on German government reps and citizens. It seems that the only solution is to find ways to block intrusion into private communication in Germany by developing encryptions that can't be invaded.

Such a program will be in high demand all around the world.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 03:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I will always be much more concerned with what our enemies are thinking than what our supposed allies are.


I recommend you reconsider this approach.

I suspect you won't, but I've done what I can.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 03:19 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I will always be much more concerned with what our enemies are thinking than what our supposed allies are.


I recommend you reconsider this approach.

I suspect you won't, but I've done what I can.


Don't overtax yourself, Beth.

If you opened your mind...you might find some value in my observations on this issue.

In any case, I want the guy to get a fair trial. Apparently you and some others here don't want that.

Perhaps you folk should consider why you don't.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 03:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You,
Quote:
In any case, I want the guy to get a fair trial. Apparently you and some others here don't want that.


You're not listening Frank. You want "the guy to get a fair trial." Many of us do not believe he will get a fair trial. The government that's been accused of a crime can't be a fair arbiter of fairness. It's called conflict of interest.

When Snowden revealed that laws were broken, some government heads should have rolled, but it didn't. Try to guess why - if that's possible.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 03:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
NSA reportedly developing way to break all codes
7 hrs ago 0:21
CBSTV Videos
The NSA is reportedly working on a super computer that could crack nearly ever kind of encryption. Norah O'Donnell reports.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 03:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You,
Quote:
In any case, I want the guy to get a fair trial. Apparently you and some others here don't want that.


You're not listening Frank. You want "the guy to get a fair trial." Many of us do not believe he will get a fair trial. The government that's been accused of a crime can't be a fair arbiter of fairness. It's called conflict of interest.

When Snowden revealed that laws were broken, some government heads should have rolled, but it didn't. Try to guess why - if that's possible.




A trial held in the United States...with peers of his sitting in judgement...with what will undoubtedly be the finest legal representation ever assembled...

...and you do not think it will be fair.

If it is unfair...it more likely be unfair in favor of Snowden rather than the government, ci. The best lawyers do not gravitate to the prosecution side of these things...they are on the defense side.

Snowden is accused of serious crimes...and he deserves a fair trial.

You and the others here are making all sorts of excuses about that basic fact...

...BECAUSE THE LAST THING IN THE WORLD YOU WANT IS FOR HIM TO GET A FAIR TRIAL.

You want to consider him a hero, because he **** on the government you apparently detest. You want him exonerated without a trial.

Fine.

Want that.

I want him to get a fair trial...just as I wanted Timothy McVeigh to get a fair trial. Timothy McVeigh also despised the government of the United States...and thought that when it enforced the laws enacted by the congress...it was being unfair to the citizenry. He thought that fact had to be brought to the attention of the American public...to the attention of the world in a clear, unambiguous way.

No matter how reprehensible I feel his deed was, I thought he deserved a fair trial.

I think Edward Snowden deserves a fair trial.

Sorry you have such a low regard for the government of the United States, ci...and that you think it would do a hatchet job on Snowden (as though it would be able to)...

...but I think the man has been accused of serious crimes...and deserves to clear his name in a fair trial.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 03:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Blimey!! Talk about déjà vu,
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 04:00 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No wonder Evelyn Waugh complimented Americans for being polite enough not to expect anybody to be listening to what they are saying. Possibly he wasn't aware that it was because everybody knew what they were going to say and had ceased to listen after the number of repetitions had reached the limit of their patience but pretended to out of social etiquette and neighbourly friendship so as not to have to have one man barbecues.

The Lonely Crowd.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 04:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It seems that the only solution is to find ways to block intrusion into private communication in Germany by developing encryptions that can't be invaded.

Such a program will be in high demand all around the world.


An American firms will be locked out of that tens of billions dollars a year business both in software and hardware.

Not even most American firms will buy from American companies.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 04:17 pm
@BillRM,
Where did you get the information that American firms will not buy from other American firms?

I'd like to see the source.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 04:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
A trial held in the United States...with peers of his sitting in judgement...with what will undoubtedly be the finest legal representation ever assembled...

-----------------------------------------

Cuban Five is just one dandy example.

Xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


http://www.thecuban5.org/wordpress/2012/01/04/amnesty-international-labels-as-unfair-the-trial-of-the-cuban-5/

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL LABELS AS UNFAIR THE TRIAL OF THE CUBAN 5
Posted on January 4, 2012 by ICFC5
This page is also available in: Spanish

www.antiterroristas.cu

In its Report 2011, Amnesty International made a reference again to the case of the five Cubans imprisoned in the United States. In this occasion the case is included in the section dedicated to the United States in the segment of Unfair Trials. It is important to point out that it is the only trial classified by Amnesty International as UNFAIR in the United States.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 04:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Why do you think that companies won't want to trust all in their computers to the NSA, CI?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 04:24 pm
@JTT,
He hopes they won't JT.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 07:45 pm
The NSA can keep collecting private phone records. How do you think this issue will end up? Where's the search warrant?

It seems to me that those judges are not upholding the Constitution as they promised when sworn into office.

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — A secretive U.S. spy court has ruled again that the National Security Agency can keep collecting every American's telephone records every day, in the midst of dueling decisions in two other federal courts about whether the surveillance program is constitutional.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court on Friday renewed the NSA phone collection program, said Shawn Turner, a spokesman for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Such periodic requests are somewhat formulaic but required since the program started in 2006.

The latest approval was the first since two conflicting court decisions about whether the program is lawful and since a presidential advisory panel recommended that the NSA no longer be allowed to collect and store the phone records and search them without obtaining separate court approval for each search.

In a statement, Turner said that 15 judges on the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court on 36 occasions over the past seven years have approved the NSA's collection of U.S. phone records as lawful.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 07:54 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
An American firms will be locked out of that tens of billions dollars a year business both in software and hardware.

We can fight such anti-American bigotry by imposing punitive sanctions through the WTO.

IF the WTO doesn't protect us, we could also have Congress direct the NSA to begin plundering the intellectual property of anti-American corporations.


BillRM wrote:
Not even most American firms will buy from American companies.

Unlikely.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Jan, 2014 08:29 pm
@oralloy,
You can't stop people from buying the products they want. Who wants to buy products from companies that consort with war criminals, terrorists and gangsters.

... ... ...

Oh wait, silly me. Lots of USA products are bought. If people only knew.

0 Replies
 
 

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