Snowdon is a dummy

@BillRM,

My post to Hawk goes for you too.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Only an idiot believes governments and politicians dont lie.

only an idiot promises to clean up Washington but instead goes the other way. an effort us required.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

RABEL222 wrote:

Only an idiot believes governments and politicians dont lie.

only an idiot promises to clean up Washington but instead goes the other way. an effort us required.

Not correct at all.

A brilliant liar could promise to clean up Washington but instead go the other way.

A brilliant but naive person could also.

Definitely doesn't take an idiot.

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@Frank Apisa,

I confess that I care about the issue. Whether or not our children will live in an Orwellian dystopia is important to me. As for you, you just serve as an easy target. Not many A2Kers are naive enough to defend the US administration on this issue. So keep it up! Smile

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I confess that I care about the issue.

We all do. Some of us are intelligent enough to realize that because another person disagrees with our take on the issue...does not mean they do not care about it.

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Whether or not our children will live in an Orwellian dystopia is important to me.

That is very interesting, Olivier.

Some of us are intelligent enough to realize that rights of privacy can change considerably due to advanced technology without necessitating a move toward an "Orwellian dystopia."

Quote:

As for you, you just serve as an easy target.

If I were, you would have landed a couple of lucky hits by now.

You haven't.

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Not many A2Kers are naive enough to defend the US administration on this issue. So keep it up!

How am I "defending" the US administration on this issue?

Are you concentrating?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

OMG! Obama flat out lies, him being the guy who promised to run the most transparent administration ever because we the American people deserve that?

Maybe he meant: the most transparent US people ever? America has become a 'house of glass', very transparent to its spooks and leaders...

Which reminds me of this excellent Indonesian literary saga:
http://www.amazon.com/House-Glass-Quartet-Pramoedya-Ananta/dp/0140256792

In the final book of the "Buru Quartet" (so-called because Pramoedya wrote the books while jailed in Buru island), the main character, Minke, a young journalist fighting against the Dutch colonial administration, has been neutralized by the colonial state through a number of devices, including very close surveillance of him and his companions. His life is the house of glass referred to in the title. The other main character is Pangemanann, a cop who's life is entirely dedicated to Minke's surveillance. Pangemanann becomes more and more disgusted by his work and himself, all the while starting to admire his victims, something like the Stockholm syndrome in reverse. If I remember well, he ends up helping the resistance.

We can only hope that more and more modern Pangemananns will become disgusted by their own work, and start working against the system.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

We all do [care].

You're on record saying it's 'very small potatoes', and unavoidable. Also, if you'd care, you would avidly read Walter's very informative posts, rather than dismiss them.

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Some of us are intelligent enough to realize that rights of privacy can change considerably due to advanced technology without necessitating a move toward an "Orwellian dystopia.

Well, maybe you want to argue that rather odd idea then, and explain how it does not contradict the US Bill of Rights, specifically the 1st Amendment (protecting the privacy of beliefs and separating church and state), the 4th Amendment (protecting against unreasonable searches), and the 5th Amendment's privilege against self-incrimination, which provides protection for the privacy of personal information ("nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation").

If you're so intelligent, it should be a piece of cake for you to make your case.

Quote:

If I were, you would have landed a couple of lucky hits by now. You haven't.

Some of us are intelligent enough to know that I have scored a few hits already, for instance on your foul debating technique that consists in repeating the same argument over and over again as if your audience was too stupid to understand your point the first time around.

Quote:

How am I "defending" the US administration on this issue?

By taking their side against Snowden, by assuming that they have good reasons to do what they do, by trying to demean A2K posters who share information about the spying... etc. etc.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
We all do [care].

You're on record saying it's 'very small potatoes', and unavoidable. Also, if you'd care, you would avidly read Walter's very informative posts, rather than dismiss them.

I do read Walter's posts...and I do not dismiss them. I sometimes disagree with elements of them. Walter and I go way back...and we have lots of disagreements...just as we have plenty of agreements. Try not to let my discussions with Walter get under your skin so easily.

Quote:

Quote:
Some of us are intelligent enough to realize that rights of privacy can change considerably due to advanced technology without necessitating a move toward an "Orwellian dystopia.

Well, maybe you want to argue that rather odd idea then, and explain how it does not contradict the US Bill of Rights, specifically the 1st Amendment (protecting the privacy of beliefs and separating church and state), the 4th Amendment (protecting against unreasonable searches), and the 5th Amendment's privilege against self-incrimination, which provides protection for the privacy of personal information ("nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation").

If you're so intelligent, it should be a piece of cake for you to make your case.

I already did.

Once again: Some of us are intelligent enough to realize that rights of privacy can change considerably due to advanced technology without necessitating a move toward an "Orwellian dystopia.

Sorry you cannot grasp that, Olivier.

Quote:

Quote:
If I were, you would have landed a couple of lucky hits by now. You haven't.

Some of us are intelligent enough to know that I have scored a few hits already, for instance on your foul debating technique that consists in repeating the same argument over and over again as if your audience was too stupid to understand your point the first time around.

I do not repeat the arguments to everyone, Olivier...just to the people who are unable to get the message...whether because they are "too stupid"...or just intellectually dishonest.

Quote:

Quote:
How am I "defending" the US administration on this issue?

By taking their side against Snowden, by assuming that they have good reasons to do what they do, by trying to demean A2K posters who share information about the spying... etc. etc.

I am not taking anyone's side; I am not making assumptions about reasons; I am not trying to demean A2K posters (other than laughing at you). I am, and have been all along, saying that Snowden is accused of breaking some very important laws...and that attempts should be made to return him to the US for trial. I am suggesting that he should have a fair trial.

How you can distort that to mean that I am defending the US administration is beyond rational comprehension.

Get your act in order, Olivier. You are allowing the fact that I get under your skin so easily and so often to disrupt your thinking. It makes you look bad. And it causes you to never land a blow!

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Walter and I go way back...

Just to get that right: I only went back because you fall down! Wink

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Walter and I go way back...

Just to get that right: I only went back because you fall down!

Yeah, I can go along with that.

You're a straight shooter, Walter. I think there are lots of straight shooters on the wrong side of this issue. But time will tell where this leads. Snowden says he did what he did because he did not want to live in a country where personal privacy and freedom are in jeopardy.

I wonder how that is working out for him.

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@Frank Apisa,

Of the two big whistle-blowers one ends up in in Russia and the other's becoming a woman, don't know which is worse.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I wonder how that is working out for him.

I would like to know that, too.
Perhaps, we'll get to know more about that soon: he said today that he is prepared in principle to help Germany investigate allegations of surveillance by U.S. intelligence.

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@eurocelticyankee,

Really, you think working in Russia is no different from being someone's bitch in an American military prison?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I already did.

In what post did you actually present arguments against the dangers of a "big brother" type of society?

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I do not repeat the arguments to everyone, Olivier.

You actually stopped doing that after I remarked that it made you look like an advanced case of Alzheimer.

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How you can distort that to mean that I am defending the US administration is beyond rational comprehension.

You wouldn't recognize "rational comprehension" if it bit your ass, Frank, but in this case, it's just beyond your level of intellectual honesty.

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You are allowing the fact that I get under your skin so easily and so often to disrupt your thinking.

You wish!

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Imagine it at close quarters Olivier and incessantly. It must be insupportable.

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@izzythepush,

Who said anything about; being someone's bitch in an American military prison?.
I said becoming a woman, kidding about which is worse, living in Russia or being a woman.

Have you had the op yourself, drama queen.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I already did.

In what post did you actually present arguments against the dangers of a "big brother" type of society?

Quote:
I do not repeat the arguments to everyone, Olivier.

You actually stopped doing that after I remarked that it made you look like an advanced case of Alzheimer.

Quote:
How you can distort that to mean that I am defending the US administration is beyond rational comprehension.

You wouldn't recognize "rational comprehension" if it bit your ass, Frank, but in this case, it's just beyond your level of intellectual honesty.

Quote:
You are allowing the fact that I get under your skin so easily and so often to disrupt your thinking.

You wish!

Yup...you allowing the fact that I get under your skin so easily and so often to disrupt your thinking.

And I am working at a disadvantage here.

When I am batting against you I am often chiding myself with thoughts like, "C'mon, Frank, stop it. You're picking on him! It's unfair."

1 Reply

Back to Snowden.

He was visited today by the German veteran Greens politician Hans-Christian Ströbele (and two tv-journalists).
Generally, Snowden accepted to testify at a committee of investigation of our parliament - but pointed at his situation.

The Parliamentary Research Services of the German Bundestag wrote that Snowden could travel to Germany as a witness without having to fear an extradition to the USA (The extradition request is already here). Snowdon is now legally stateless, but besides international legal and humanitarian reasons the "protection of polotical interests" of the German Federal Republic would justify to grant him a "residence title for specific purposes".

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Back to Snowden.

He was visited today by the German veteran Greens politician Hans-Christian Ströbele (and two tv-journalists).
Generally, Snowden accepted to testify at a committee of investigation of our parliament - but pointed at his situation.

The Parliamentary Research Services of the German Bundestag wrote that Snowden could travel to Germany as a witness without having to fear an extradition to the USA (The extradition request is already here). Snowdon is now legally stateless, but besides international legal and humanitarian reasons the "protection of polotical interests" of the German Federal Republic would justify to grant him a "residence title for specific purposes".

I wonder how the Russians would feel about re-entry.

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@Frank Apisa,

For your info, you don't actually need to pick on me or anyone else... That's attacking the messenger. Address the issues instead, starting with: Is a "big brother society" a good thing, and why? Or: how does such mass surveillance fit the Bill of Rights? Or: is keeping allies and partners more or less important than listening to what they say over the phone?

I am trying to help you here...

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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