42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 10:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
we are also told that Obama did not know that Healthcare.gov was a clusterfuck till after it went live, which had better be a lie because if the claims are true Obama is a worse manager than anyone else who has sat in that chair in a long while.

team obama should stop digging, admit their governing mistakes, and fire a bunch of people.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 10:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we are also told that Obama did not know that Healthcare.gov was a clusterfuck till after it went live


How would you know, Hawk, as it's never been given a chance?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 10:55 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
we are also told that Obama did not know that Healthcare.gov was a clusterfuck till after it went live


How would you know, Hawk, as it's never been given a chance?

did you forget to take your drugs this morning? it has been given a chance for almost a month, and failed. team obama promises to have ut working by the end of Nov.
JTT
 
  2  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 10:59 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
it has been given a chance for almost a month, and failed.


Wow, a whole month, Hawk!

Yet you give your illegal wars years, subjecting innocents to the brutality of the US military or their proxy murders, rapists and torturers and you give it nary a thought.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 11:47 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Yeah...if we ever get attacked again...these are the same people who would be marching on the Mall with signs asking why the government didn't do more to prevent such attacks.


Yes, I am sure that having everyone email address book or knowing when we call our family is going to be a great help in preventing another attacked!!!!!!!!

Let alone stopping NSA from pissing off all our allies as I am sure that the German government is plotting with the Mexico government

Damn those silly people who wish to protect the fourth amendment for US citizens and keep US internet businesses from needing to go offshore as no one will trust any business working under current US laws to respect their privacy.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 11:55 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Yeah...if we ever get attacked again...these are the same people who would be marching on the Mall with signs asking why the government didn't do more to prevent such attacks.


Yes, I am sure that having everyone email address book or knowing when we call our family is going to be a great help in preventing another attacked!!!!!!!!

Damn those silly people who wish to protect the fourth amendment.



And a second guesser like you will be one of the marchers also.

It is so easy to second guess. Those are the silly people.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 11:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
And a second guesser like you will be one of the marchers also.

It is so easy to second guess. Those are the silly people.


You sir are the silly one willing to give up all rights to privacy for no gain at all to a government that is slowly turning into a far far greater threat then all the terrorists in the world to our freedoms.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 12:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'd always thought that Merkel's chief of staff is a silly person. I'm not sure about our spy chiefs ... they will travel to Washington next week and start protest talks with U.S. officials about the spying ...

BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 12:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
With any luck Frank the government can used all the information they are building on all of us to find ways to blackmail the leadership of the "stop spying on us" movement as Hoover try to get Rev King to commit suicide over the details of his sex life becoming public that the FBI recorded.

Of course Hoover only have a few file cabinets of such information not a computer center in Utah with enough storage to record the whole library of congress a few millions times over.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 12:17 pm
Quote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/25/europe-erupts-nsa-spying-chief-government

The most under-discussed aspect of the NSA story has long been its international scope. That all changed this week as both Germany and France exploded with anger over new revelations about pervasive NSA surveillance on their population and democratically elected leaders.

As was true for Brazil previously, reports about surveillance aimed at leaders are receiving most of the media attention, but what really originally drove the story there were revelations that the NSA is bulk-spying on millions and millions of innocent citizens in all of those nations. The favorite cry of US government apologists -–everyone spies! – falls impotent in the face of this sort of ubiquitous, suspicionless spying that is the sole province of the US and its four English-speaking surveillance allies (the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand).

There are three points worth making about these latest developments.

• First, note how leaders such as Chancellor Angela Merkel reacted with basic indifference when it was revealed months ago that the NSA was bulk-spying on all German citizens, but suddenly found her indignation only when it turned out that she personally was also targeted. That reaction gives potent insight into the true mindset of many western leaders.

• Second, all of these governments keep saying how newsworthy these revelations are, how profound are the violations they expose, how happy they are to learn of all this, how devoted they are to reform. If that's true, why are they allowing the person who enabled all these disclosures – Edward Snowden – to be targeted for persecution by the US government for the "crime" of blowing the whistle on all of this?

If the German and French governments – and the German and French people – are so pleased to learn of how their privacy is being systematically assaulted by a foreign power over which they exert no influence, shouldn't they be offering asylum to the person who exposed it all, rather than ignoring or rejecting his pleas to have his basic political rights protected, and thus leaving him vulnerable to being imprisoned for decades by the US government?

Aside from the treaty obligations these nations have to protect the basic political rights of human beings from persecution, how can they simultaneously express outrage over these exposed invasions while turning their back on the person who risked his liberty and even life to bring them to light?

• Third, is there any doubt at all that the US government repeatedly tried to mislead the world when insisting that this system of suspicionless surveillance was motivated by an attempt to protect Americans from The Terrorists™? Our reporting has revealed spying on conferences designed to negotiate economic agreements, the Organization of American States, oil companies, ministries that oversee mines and energy resources, the democratically elected leaders of allied states, and entire populations in those states.

Can even President Obama and his most devoted loyalists continue to maintain, with a straight face, that this is all about Terrorism? That is what this superb new Foreign Affairs essay by Henry Farrell and Martha Finnemore means when it argues that the Manning and Snowden leaks are putting an end to the ability of the US to use hypocrisy as a key weapon in its soft power.

Speaking of an inability to maintain claims with a straight face, how are American and British officials, in light of their conduct in all of this, going to maintain the pretense that they are defenders of press freedoms and are in a position to lecture and condemn others for violations? In what might be the most explicit hostility to such freedoms yet – as well as the most unmistakable evidence of rampant panic – the NSA's director, General Keith Alexander, actually demanded Thursday that the reporting being done by newspapers around the world on this secret surveillance system be halted (Techdirt has the full video here):

The head of the embattled National Security Agency, Gen Keith Alexander, is accusing journalists of "selling" his agency's documents and is calling for an end to the steady stream of public disclosures of secrets snatched by former contractor Edward Snowden.

"I think it's wrong that that newspaper reporters have all these documents, the 50,000 – whatever they have and are selling them and giving them out as if these – you know it just doesn't make sense," Alexander said in an interview with the Defense Department's "Armed With Science" blog.

"We ought to come up with a way of stopping it. I don't know how to do that. That's more of the courts and the policy-makers but, from my perspective, it's wrong to allow this to go on," the NSA director declared. [My italics]

There are 25,000 employees of the NSA (and many tens of thousands more who work for private contracts assigned to the agency). Maybe one of them can tell The General about this thing called "the first amendment".

I'd love to know what ways, specifically, General Alexander has in mind for empowering the US government to "come up with a way of stopping" the journalism on this story. Whatever ways those might be, they are deeply hostile to the US constitution – obviously. What kind of person wants the government to forcibly shut down reporting by the press?

Whatever kind of person that is, he is not someone to be trusted in instituting and developing a massive bulk-spying system that operates in the dark. For that matter, nobody is.

Leaving

As many of you likely know, it was an
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 12:22 pm
@BillRM,
it would be ironic if obama does more to damage our global reputation than bush did given the optics of the 2008 election, but that might just happen. and to think that the cause of this is rudimentary incompetence, there is no way that a slightly properly run NSA allows Snowden to take even a tiny fraction of what he did.

I bet Obama finally cares now about good government after Snowden and healthcare.gov!
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 12:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
it would be ironic if obama does more to damage our global reputation than bush did given the optics of the 2008 election, but that might just happen.


Yes, Obama is a big big disappointment in many ways.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 12:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Now, this news is covered by English-language media as well:
United States tracked Merkel's phone since 2002

I mean, she really is a person to arouse suspicion: growing up in an Evangelical minister's home in communist Germany, Polish relatives, doctor degree in physics from a Karl-Marx-University, opposition leader of the conservative (aka liberal in the USA) Christian Democratic/Christian Social Union, minister, chancellor ...
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 01:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
I mean, she really is a person to arouse suspicion: growing up in an Evangelical minister's home in communist Germany, Polish relatives, doctor degree in physics from a Karl-Marx-University, opposition leader of the conservative (aka liberal in the USA) Christian Democratic/Christian Social Union, minister, chancellor ...


People like Frank do not trust even themselves not to turn into a terrorist it would seems let alone Merkel or the President of Mexico for that matter.

Bet Frank check under his bed every night to be sure there is not someone reading the Quran under there.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 01:54 pm
@BillRM,
It beats me why he hasn't been impeached.

It was on our news that somebody up top had told him that he couldn't stand to look at him.

I think he's a joker hamming it up and a form of mass surveillance was used to get him elected in 2008.

Do us a favour Bill. Apisa must think you respect him and there was a question I asked him which he refused to answer on the grounds that he doesn't answer questions from people who don't respect him. Which I'll admit I don't.

It was whether Snowden's antics can be recovered from, which they easily can, and whether the unhindered mass surveillance cannot, which it cannot once it goes critical. Mass surveillance was one of the main themes of 1984.
It's the crux of the whole matter.

Ask Apisa about it then we will know what he thinks. Which would be helpful.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 02:01 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And a second guesser like you will be one of the marchers also.

It is so easy to second guess. Those are the silly people.


You sir are the silly one willing to give up all rights to privacy for no gain at all to a government that is slowly turning into a far far greater threat then all the terrorists in the world to our freedoms.


You are assuming there is no gain at all...and the balance of your post is hyperbole at its worst.

But it is you writing it, so I understand. Wink



0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 02:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I'd always thought that Merkel's chief of staff is a silly person. I'm not sure about our spy chiefs ... they will travel to Washington next week and start protest talks with U.S. officials about the spying ...




I truly understand all the consternation, Walter...but I also see much of the political indignation as contrived.

We'll see where this all ends up.

My guess: The revelations of Edward Snowden will eventually be seen as an extremely unfortunate and markedly negative action by a guy who did not think out what he was doing...

...and indignation on the part of some of the public that is way over-done...with some glorification of Snowden that is totally unwarranted.

I may be wrong.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 02:07 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I mean, she really is a person to arouse suspicion: growing up in an Evangelical minister's home in communist Germany, Polish relatives, doctor degree in physics from a Karl-Marx-University, opposition leader of the conservative (aka liberal in the USA) Christian Democratic/Christian Social Union, minister, chancellor ...


People like Frank do not trust even themselves not to turn into a terrorist it would seems let alone Merkel or the President of Mexico for that matter.

Bet Frank check under his bed every night to be sure there is not someone reading the Quran under there.


Oh, I trust myself a lot, Bill. And I do not check under my bed at night at all.

Thank you for getting this childish. It vindicates what I have been thinking about your posts.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 03:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Bill wasn't being childish. He was employing the sort of poetic licence Dylan used in the song about communists in the TV set and ending up investigating himself.

Are Obarmy's IT transactions being monitored?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 26 Oct, 2013 03:16 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Bill wasn't being childish. He was employing the sort of poetic licence Dylan used in the song about communists in the TV set and ending up investigating himself.

Are Obarmy's IT transactions being monitored?


Have you seen any good movies lately, Spendius?
 

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