Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

And where are you going with this, Walter?

He is accused of crimes...and I think that he should get a fair trial.

Are you saying he is not entitled to a fair trial? Or that you don't want him to get a fair trial?

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Was that post posted in error here, Walter?

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@Frank Apisa,

Why don't you try giving fair trials to those held without charge in Guantanamo Bay first?

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Why don't you try giving fair trials to those held without charge in Guantanamo Bay first?

Not my call, Izzy. I was just giving my opinion on Snowden.

For the record...I think the people being held in Guantanamo ought to be given fair trials also...or released. But I sure as hell would not want to be the guy who releases them and has to live with whatever damage any of them cause in the future.

But yes, they deserve a fair trial...just like Snowden.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I did not elect Snowden to decide what should be exposed or not exposed. I don't know of anyone else who elected him.

I did not voted for Obama to break the constitution either...................

An US citizens have a right to know when officers in their government is not following the constitution.

Lawbreakers have no right to used the laws in bad faith to hide their crimes from the people of the US.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I did not elect Snowden to decide what should be exposed or not exposed. I don't know of anyone else who elected him.

I did not voted for Obama to break the constitution either...................

But you did vote for Obama.

And when you vote for someone...you get the good with the bad...or more exactly, you get what you may consider good and what you may consider bad.

Nobody voted for Snowden.

Quote:

An US citizens have a right to know when officers in their government is not following the constitution.

Really?

Where is that in the Constitution?

In any case...even if they should know...there are proper ways and improper ways to inform them.

If Snowden broke any laws (and it appears he did)...he should be given the opportunity for a fair trial.

Do you disagree?

Quote:

Lawbreakers have no right to used the laws in bad faith to hide their crimes from the people of the US.

I'm glad you agree with me that Snowden should face trial then.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Nobody voted for Snowden.

I would cheerfully vote for the man if he ever run for office first of all and second of all you do not need to hold a public office to have the right to informed fellow citizens of government officers breaking faith and their oaths to uphold the constitution.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Nobody voted for Snowden.

I would cheerfully vote for the man if he ever run for office first of all and second of all you do not need to hold a public office to have the right to informed fellow citizens of government officers breaking faith and their oaths to uphold the constitution.

As I said...nobody voted for Snowden...so the decision to out secrets was not his to make.

The man is accused of crimes against the United States. He deserves a fair trial.

When you next get to vote...vote "cheerfully" for whomever you choose.

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@Frank Apisa,

They could start by sending Shaker Aamer back to the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker_Aamer

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

They could start by sending Shaker Aamer back to the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker_Aamer

My guess is there is more to all of this than meets the eye.

But I understand completely the misgivings and anger these detentions cause.

Have the detentions saved any innocent lives?

I do not know...maybe yes, maybe no...maybe a big YES.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The man is accused of crimes against the United States. He deserves a fair trial.

Whether what Snowden did was the moral thing or not is in the eye of the beholder. In my personal opinion, Snowden committed a national crime when he deliberately smuggled out classified information belonging to the United States and released such. He is an American citizen and if he had a problem there were expert intellectual sources he could have sought out for advise. But to deliberately sabotage the national security of the country of his birth and those countries with whom we closely affiliated with shows him to be a snake in the grass. By now Russia probably has everything from the US classified info from Snowden and that might have been one of the conditions to allowing Snowden to remain at least for a year in Moscow.

There is a group of people who share common opinions on the guilt or innocence of Edward Snowden who hold strong feelings regarding the Snowden situation....I understand and respect your views whatever they are.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

They could start by sending Shaker Aamer back to the UK.

Well, Frank doesn't think he deserves a fair trial, and the CIA isn't finished torturing him yet anyway...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
They could start by sending Shaker Aamer back to the UK.

Well, Frank doesn't think he deserves a fair trial, and the CIA isn't finished torturing him yet anyway...

Where does that come from, Olivier...and is it still coated?

He deserves a fair trial.

I have said he deserves a fair trial.

They all do.

No need to make stuff up.

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@Frank Apisa,

And who doesn't deserve a fair trial then?

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@oralloy,

There is another aspect to this oralloy.

I presume you can see an analogy between the NSA's keeping us all safe from the nasty world and the strong, masterful patriarchal saviour figure providing security to the innocent and feeble, clinging female of Victorian times who gets fucked in return along with the maids.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

And who doesn't deserve a fair trial then?

Everyone accused of a crime deserves a fair trial, Olivier.

Why are you accusing me of "not wanting" the people in Guantanamo to have a fair trial?

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@Frank Apisa,

Well, unlike for Snowden, you haven't gone around posting two thousands times that they do deserve a fair trial.

So you deserve a fair trial too, right?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Well, unlike for Snowden, you haven't gone around posting two thousands times that they do deserve a fair trial.

I have not posted that sentiment for Snowden two thousand times, Olivier.

That is hyperbole. I've told you a million times not to use hyperbole.

Quote:

So you deserve a fair trial too, right?

Of what criminal activity have I been accused?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Of what criminal activity have I been accused?

Intellectual dishonesty.

Of what criminal activity has Shaker Aamer been accused???

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Of what criminal activity have I been accused?

Intellectual dishonesty.

Of what criminal activity has Shaker Aamer been accused???

I have not been accused of a crime of intellectual dishonesty...and as far as I know, even if I were accused of intellectual dishonesty...it would not be a crime.

So I ask again: What criminal activity have I been accused of?

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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