The Bible (a discussion)

Quote:

Romeo said: Jesus said "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it if you can" (Matt 26:42)
Neologist said: Show me any translation that contains this spurious statement, if you can. Or admit you twist the scriptures to fit your own ideas.

It seems plain enough to me mate-
"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” (Matt 26:39)

As for twisting stuff, you JW's are the experts, you've twisted and re-written the Bible so much that you think it tells you to refuse to celebrate christmas easter and birthdays, that church spires are pagan, that crucifixes may not be worn, and that you must let each other die for want of transfusions!
No offence, but get out of the JW's as soon as you can, you don't need them to do your thinking for you.. Smile

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@Germlat,

Quote:

Why did you bring it up? Exploring motive here.

I said it was a vague memory and that I might have misunderstood. I certainly didn't invent it out of thin air.

It was from before the flame-throwing with some atheists which caused Apisa to desert A2K for a number of years.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Jesus said "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it if you can" (Matt 26:42)

I wrote:

Show me any translation that contains this spurious statement, if you can. Or admit you twist the scriptures to fit your own ideas.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

It seems plain enough to me mate-
"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” (Matt 26:39)

You have not stopped to consider the reason for Jesus' words. It was not fear of the ordeal. ( I'll let you mull over this one for a while; but consider the charges levied against him.)

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

As for twisting stuff, you JW's are the experts, you've twisted and re-written the Bible so much that you think it tells you to refuse to celebrate christmas easter and birthdays, that church spires are pagan, that crucifixes may not be worn, and that you must let each other die for want of transfusions!
No offence, but get out of the JW's as soon as you can, you don't need them to do your thinking for you..

The operative word here, Romeo, is think.

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Neologist mate, if ever the day arrives when I think I need a Jehovah's Witness to preach to me, you can measure me up for a straitjacket.. Smile

As long as you JW's go on letting each other die for want of transfusions because you think it's "God's will", nobody can take you seriously.
That's why I've advised you to get out of the cult.. Wink

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/jw-mother_zps0cbd6acb.jpg~original

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Although my rejection of transfusion is based on scripture, I would venture, without looking up the statistics, that more have died from transfusion complications than from want of a transfusion. That's probably why so many folks who are not JWs will profess the faith when entering hospitals for surgery. The advances in bloodless surgery in recent years have benefited all patients.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

The unfortunate lady. Romeo, chose herself. I think a court can over-rule someone else choosing.

I give a rat's arse about this matter. How the practice may have arisen, for example. Or did it serve some purpose?

Human rituals usually have some sensible source even if most of us think it is no longer the case.

And you are always careful, as media is, your programmer, to choose the life threatening example when there might be a lot more cases where life was not threatened. Many people have regretted being given another person's blood. Maybe it is because the process devalues blood to the level of a commodity.

Suppose they gave you a few pints of a water-drinker's blood. Your hair might turn white on the spot.

It is a bit risky belittling the stated settled practice of a group with a significant following. They may well forgive infringements easily anyway. Risky in the sense of avoiding looking foolish which I know is quite difficult to do these days.

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Quote:

Neologist said: Although my rejection of transfusion is based on scripture..

Nah, the word 'transfusion' doesn't appear in any Bible.. Smile

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

. . . the word 'transfusion' doesn't appear in any Bible.

Neither does cocaine. Would that be OK, then?

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@neologist,

The difference between the two is a matter of survival. Explain your point further.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

The bible is specific about abstaining from blood. God considers it sacred:

Quote:

(Leviticus 17:11) For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for YOU to make atonement for YOUR souls, because it is the blood that makes atonement by the soul [in it]

Prohibition against eating blood In the OT

Quote:

(Genesis 9:3, 4) 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.

Restated in the NT:

Quote:

(Acts 15:28, 29) 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”

Romeo will tell you this applies only to blood sausages and the like; but if your doctor was to tell you to abstain from alcohol, would you think it proper to inject some into your veins?

I understand this often becomes an emotional issue and the majority of people feel excused from it. That is not for me to judge.

Going back to Romeo's assertion that the word 'transfusion' never appears in the bible, my response to him is that many things not known in the first century are now popular poisons.

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@Wilso,

Wilso wrote:

The Bible seems like fiction...and anyone who suggests it tells us that there is a GOD...and what the GOD expects of humans is certainly showing an amazing amount of gullibility. Any theist doing that...is bordering on the absurd.

It is prudent to remember, though, that because "The Bible" probably does not tell us anything worthwhile about what accounts for existence...

...anyone who suggests that of all the possible explanations for existence...the one that is impossible is "there is an eternal being that accounts for it"...is being every bit as absurd.

Theism and atheism both require a suspension of reason...and both are, in many ways, absurd. For atheists to mock theists as much as they do...is ludicrous.

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@Wilso,

Did anybody not know that Wilso? Although "8 members of the C of E" is not correct. It is a barefaced lie deliberately told and repeated.

Not only is it insanity to deal with the book in that simple manner but it is insulting to the intelligence of those it is intended to influence as is, of course, your posting the drivel. The assumption that the audience is stupid and likes to wallow in it is plain for all to see.

That you know nothing about such matters or the book itself is really not of any consequence.

It's a pity that you deny yourself the pleasure of reading such wonderful literature. It is also a pity that you cannot separate the book itself from those who thump on it and that it has become something of a bogeyman for you.

That atheists tell lies and disrespect the public is the cause of the low ratings in the opinion polls for the belief.

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@Wilso,

Wilso wrote:

Like Michael Sherlock is not doing "believing" here.

Atheistic arguments are often the atheist's worst enemy!

1 Reply

@Smileyrius,

The Bible to me is a summary of fables and truths of the people in those times. Regardless of how I personally feel I tend to take the positive essence out of the Bible.

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Quote:

Ezekiel 9:6 "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . "

Isaiah 13:16 "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly . . . "

Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . "

Exodus 32:27 ". . . Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."

Deut 21:10-12 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; "

Exodus 31:15 " . . . whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

Deut 21:21 "And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die . . . "

Positive essence - yeah

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Ha ha Wilso, you sound like an oldtime fire-and-brimstone fundy preacher.. Smile

Jesus TRASHED all that Old T harshness and people quickly cottoned on that it's as much use as as a dead dingo's donger!

"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Pet 1:18 )
"Through Jesus we are saved,and not through Moses" (Acts 13:39)
"Jesus is worthy of more honour than Moses" (Heb 3:3)
"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30)

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Quote:

Frank Apisa said: The Bible seems like fiction...

Many people can't take in its scary startling revelations, so they retreat into their safe secure comfort zone of atheism and agnosticism under the bed, or seek refuge in crackpot cults. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/eyes-under-bed_zpsfedb637f.jpg~original

1 Reply

you mean revelations like Revelations, which people have been predicting are just about to happen pretty much every year for the last two thousand, and still show no signs of actually happening?

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The Bible (a discussion)

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