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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 09:32 am
Well I like programme.

We use program in a computer-world way, which is perfectly sensible I think, and programme when we mean programme.

Likewise we use both check and cheque, and they have different meanings. So I'd like to keep both, if that's all the same to everybody else.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 09:40 am
McT - Now if you make me a cheque I've to check it!

In my week's programme, I'll ckeck it with a computer's program that I've been programming.

Does it make sense?
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 02:14 pm
Makes perfect sense, Francis. But there are a number of words in english where the same spelling does bouble-duty for quite different meanings. And one final absurdity -- how in the world does one get the pronunciation 'jail' out of 'gaol'???
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 04:22 pm
Merry Andrew wrote:
Dear Goldmund:

"Loch" could just as easily be spelled "lokh." In fact, phonetically that would be closer to the pronunciation. And for any words that have the soft 'ch' sounds, words such as cheeze or cheers, how come English doesn't have any diacrticial marks? There should be a special letter for the 'ch' sound. And I totally agree with Setanta that the abandonment of the thorn in English useage was one of the high crimes and/or misdemeanors in English useage. Why use the awkward combination of 'th' when a representative chracter for that sound already exists?


Too many here are looking at this in the wrong fashion. Spelling, for English, isn't phonetic. If it were then children would be able to read it from the get go. That they can't tells us that spelling isn't meant to mimic the sounds of language, it's meant to represent the underlying
aspects of our grammar, and as such, it's only a representation.

Listen to children learning to read. They can "read thru" words they don't know because their grammar, which they do know, helps them fill in the blanks.

This illustrates just how artificial this aspect of 'language' really is. These are but mere symblols on the page which, again, mertely reflect the underlying aspects of our grammar. English has no need for any markings because we all know, long before we begin to read, the sounds that are contained in our own dialect of English.

The pronunciation of 'loch' is that which is used by a given dialect. How the Scots dialect pronounces it is of no concern whatsoever to other dialects of English.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 05:17 pm
Clary wrote:
Thorn is great, and that other voiced th letter, like a d with a line through it - all for them.


http://www.foseid.priv.no/gustav/2001/sami-ws2/img/u00f0.gif

So now we have a vote for the letter eth. With thorn and eth back in the alphabet, and the odious "c," "q" and "x" removed, Scrabble is gonna be a whole nother ballgame . . .
0 Replies
 
Goldmund
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 05:24 pm
Dear JTT,

In my youth, I travelled much in Scotland. It was a great pleasure to me to hear the authentic pronunciation of «loch». It is perhaps the only example of the sound in common English.

We may also note the sound at the beginning of the word «gigolo». This too is most rare in English. It is the sound in the French word «je».

There are dialects in the north of England, which have beautiful sounds. I may cite the Newcastle dialect. It is a delight to the ear. Smile

Kindest regards, Smile

Goldmund
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 08:17 pm
Goldmund -- interesting that you should use the word "gigolo" as an example of unusual pronunciation. What's really interesting abut the spelling of "gigolo" is that it contains two 'g's, each of which has a quite distinctive sound. I don't necesarily disagree with JTT about the fact that the non-phonetic spelling in English is overcome quite easily by children learning to read. But it does seem to me that having the same symbol represent two quite distinctive sounds in the same word can only be confusing to anyone trying to master those symbols.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 01:11 am
Hello JTT, how nice to see you back. Welcome.

Have you discovered Dot Wordsworth's column in The Spectator yet, BTW?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 01:15 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
Makes perfect sense, Francis. But there are a number of words in english where the same spelling does bouble-duty for quite different meanings. And one final absurdity -- how in the world does one get the pronunciation 'jail' out of 'gaol'???


Have you heard this old one:

if you take the 'gh' from 'enough'
and the 'o' from 'women'
and 'ti' from 'nation'

then you have ghoti, pronounced 'fish'
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 01:17 am
I'm real smart because I study spelling at the libary... Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 01:20 am
How about a cup of hot kauphi?

Oops, not one letter right... Smile

Coffee
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Aug, 2005 09:32 am
McTag wrote:
Merry Andrew wrote:
Makes perfect sense, Francis. But there are a number of words in english where the same spelling does bouble-duty for quite different meanings. And one final absurdity -- how in the world does one get the pronunciation 'jail' out of 'gaol'???


Have you heard this old one:

if you take the 'gh' from 'enough'
and the 'o' from 'women'
and 'ti' from 'nation'

then you have ghoti, pronounced 'fish'


I believe that's usually attributed to G.B. Shaw.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:00 am
Are you shaw?

Smile

Where is everybody? I'm glad you are all contented.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 01:20 am
No, I'm not shaw, McT. I said "attributed." It might have been some other Scot altogether.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 05:12 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
It might have been some other Scot altogether.


Walter? Laughing
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Clary
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 05:14 am
Sure was Irish, and it was pretty sirtainly hymn. Hello Walter, long time no fishcake.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 05:31 am
Hi Clary :wink:

Yes, there are certain hymens with the Irish, but not in my coat of arms.


http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7678/walters2sp.th.jpg
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 05:34 am
Die Wappen von Freiherr Walther von Hinteler

Sehr beeindruecksvoll
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 05:43 am
McWalters it actually is ...
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 06:00 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
McWalters it actually is ...


http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/mcwalters-family-crest.htm


Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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