63
   

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2005 04:25 pm
There is no problem, JTT. I'm sorry if you had trouble understanding.
0 Replies
 
PhilAster
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2005 05:44 pm
tx again mctag. i appreciate yr answers, Smile

but i still dont get it. how is *words* science. sum1 help me out here. show me some science with words. Sad

jtt u got sum examples plz?

phil
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2005 10:39 pm
McTag wrote:
JTT wrote:
PhilAster wrote:
yo jtt Smile how r u doin

check out my last post plz

phil


I saw it, Phil. Interesting observation.


It was to do with the study of English (or other language) as a science, was it not.

I suppose that while literature and other artistic endeavours using language (poetry, drama etc) are studied under the heading "Arts" there are other facets of language studies (linguistics, phonetics, etc) which are more properly grouped under the heading "Science".
I've the feeling this could be better put, but is intended to be helpful. Please correct any mistake or add to it if desired.

Am I correct in thinking that the study of language as a science is a fairly new thing, or at least that significant developments in it have only fairly recently been made?

I speak as a mere "Rude Mechanical" engineer.


Adding to McTag's response, the following two articles may help. This link,

<http://www.lsadc.org/>

will take you to the SITE MAP. Under "Fields of Linguistics", click on the titles of these two articles to read them in their entirety.

++++++++++++++
An Overview

Geoff Nunberg of Xerox PARC, Palo Alto, CA, and Stanford University Tom Wasow of Stanford University

An Example of Language Use

Pat: Why did the chicken cross the road?
Chris: I give up.
Pat: To get to the other side.


Most of us heard this joke when we were small children and find nothing remarkable in the ability to engage in such exchanges. But a bit of reflection reveals that even such a mundane use of language involves an amazing combination of abilities.
Think about it: Pat makes some vocal noises, with the effect that Chris entertains thoughts of a scenario involving a fowl and a thoroughfare. This leads to an exchange of utterances, possibly laughter, and the conviction by both parties that Pat has 'told a joke'. to top
Prerequisites for Language Use

What does it take to make communication through language succeed? Here are just a few of the many things that are necessary for the exchange above

Pat's first two words 'why did' sound exactly the same as 'wide id'. Breaking the stream of sounds into words requires that Chris pays attention to the wider context and knows what makes sense and what doesn't.

Words like 'chicken' and 'cross' have lots of meanings (consider, for example, one gangster saying to another, 'You won't cross me because you're chicken'). To conjure up the image of

CONTINUED AT: http://www.lsadc.org/

+++++++++++++++++++++

What Is 'Correct' Language?

by Edward Finegan of the University of Southern California

Should road signs read 'Drive Slow' or 'Drive Slowly'? Which is grammatically correct: They don't have none or They don't have any? Given 'books' as the plural of 'book' and 'they' as the plural for 'she' and 'he', what's wrong with 'y'all' and 'yous' as plurals for 'you'? Are 'between you and I' and 'between you and me' both right, and who decides what's right and wrong in language, anyway? And who put 'ain't' in the dictionary? Is English going to the dogs, and is that what the fuss is all about?

Languages often have alternative expressions for the same thing ('car' and 'auto'), and a given word can carry different senses ('river bank' vs. 'savings bank') or function as different parts of speech ('to steal'--verb; 'a steal'--noun). Because languages naturally adapt to their situations of use and also reflect the social identities of their speakers, linguistic variation is inevitable and natural.

CONTINUED AT:

http://www.lsadc.org/
0 Replies
 
Virago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2005 06:52 am
I understand the science aspect and appreciate it, but there are still two topics being discussed here. Is it amazing that humans alone are able to string together meaningless sounds to make meaningful words? Absolutely! Is the study of it worthwhile and interesting? Certainly! Does a preference require proof from a separate source? Well, no.

I could say, "Isn't it incredible how the human eye works? It's able to discern such subtle variations in color, differences in textures and depth and shape? And you could say, "Yes it is. But I don't really like the color blue."

I could say, "isn't it fantastic that from one tiny cell a human baby forms in a mere nine months? Trillions of cells form a person, and each cell becomes exactly what it should! Hair, eyes, arms, legs, brain, heartÂ… Fascinating! And you could say, "It is, isn't it. But I detest my brown hair."

Now, I might yell at you and berate you for not fully appreciating the mind-boggling magnitude of creation. Or, I might realize the subject being discussed was not science but preference. Perhaps I would realize that both topics are valid but separate, and that to attack you for stating your preference in a forum in which preference was being discussed would be silly. I might also consider starting another conversation in which only science was being discussed, so that I could spend more time talking about the topic I enjoyed rather than hearing about what people liked and didn't. Either way, I am certain I would not attempt to belittle you for making a comment.

Virago
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2005 06:59 am
How very well stated, Virago . . .


Are you really a virago? If we all don't straighten up and fly right, are you going to visit a firey retritution upon our devoted pates?


The heart trembles . . .


Thank you for a simple and elegant statment, which is at once measured in its tone and explicit in its judgement. I hope that you will enjoy this site.
0 Replies
 
Virago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2005 07:38 am
I was, in my early youth, a terrible virago. I've mellowed in recent years. Smile

Thank you for the welcome, Setana.

Virago
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2005 11:25 am
Setanta wrote:
Sure thing, Boss, you win . . . here's your gold star.

Now, it would certainly be nice to see Neologist murder or merely abuse an apostrophe.

I was afraid to post until I had donned my protective gear. So now hear I are.

Apostrocide:http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/rifle.gif '
Apostrophilia: ' http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/wubsmiley.gif
Apostrocism:http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/worthy.gif '
Apostrobuse: 'http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/hammer.gif
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 01:53 am
Nice one, Virago, I like that.

Although to be fair (we are always fair here) one or two of us pedants or "language mavens" may have stated "it is wrong that" rather than just stating a preference or a pet peeve.

That kind of thing opens the debate to the floor.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:31 am
I ain't no pedant . . . i'm descended from the Irish . . .
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:37 am
I'm a ped.. I walk by foot...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:39 am
Just read about " ... the new bestseller by ...".

'New' means it's just come out!
'Bestseller' means it's sold lots of copies!
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:40 am
So, an oxymoron..
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:41 am
There's always some kinda moron involved when the subject is advertising . . .
0 Replies
 
Virago
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:47 am
Understood, McTag, and I don't mean to suggest that the debating shouldn't occur. Actually, and it pains me to admit it, I like JTT's posts. When they're not snotty, they're informative and usually pretty funny. If someone can make me laugh out loud they can't be all bad. Only, some of us actually did come here to "brush up" and would not choose to enter into a debate. (However, a direct challenge, especially when the challenger is so antagonizing, Smile is difficult to ignore.) I may be pedantic on occasion, even obsessive, but I'm not a "language bigot". I'm not any kind of bigot.

Virago :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:47 am
And in London, I saw a sign:
"No Right
Turn Ahead".

I'm still puzzled. :wink:

But since I'm a 'left-wing liberal' .... http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/image/no_turn_on_red.gif ...
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 06:54 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And in London, I saw a sign:
"No Right Turn Ahead".


And they have done what expected.. :wink:
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 07:01 am
Virago wrote:
I understand the science aspect and appreciate it, but there are still two topics being discussed here. Is it amazing that humans alone are able to string together meaningless sounds to make meaningful words? Absolutely! Is the study of it worthwhile and interesting? Certainly! Does a preference require proof from a separate source? Well, no.

I could say, "Isn't it incredible how the human eye works? It's able to discern such subtle variations in color, differences in textures and depth and shape? And you could say, "Yes it is. But I don't really like the color blue."

I could say, "isn't it fantastic that from one tiny cell a human baby forms in a mere nine months? Trillions of cells form a person, and each cell becomes exactly what it should! Hair, eyes, arms, legs, brain, heartÂ… Fascinating! And you could say, "It is, isn't it. But I detest my brown hair."

Now, I might yell at you and berate you for not fully appreciating the mind-boggling magnitude of creation. Or, I might realize the subject being discussed was not science but preference. Perhaps I would realize that both topics are valid but separate, and that to attack you for stating your preference in a forum in which preference was being discussed would be silly. I might also consider starting another conversation in which only science was being discussed, so that I could spend more time talking about the topic I enjoyed rather than hearing about what people liked and didn't. Either way, I am certain I would not attempt to belittle you for making a comment.

Virago


There's gotta be a name for this type of deception, an actual name, there's just gotta be!

The distinctions that you're attempting to draw, Virago, between these "language preferences" and color preferences are really specious.

I don't recall the "preferences" that you got taken to task for but they obviously went beyond a color preference. All these preferences contain within, a snide, you-don't-talk-as-well-as-I-do attitude.

These types of remarks intrude into how language is used and are more akin to;

A: Brown hair shouldn't be genetically possible".

B: Oh, why?

A: Because I detest brown hair.

The problem with all this, is that when you apply scientific principles to such "preferences", they show up as mere prejudices. {ADDED: and I hadn't even read your posting 1335634, before I wrote this}

Actually, I just went back and had a look at your preferences, Virago. Not a one, wait, let me double check ..., ..., ..., ..., I'm back, right, where were we, oh yes, not a one finds a scintilla of support within knowlegeable language circles.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 07:16 am
Virago's first post at this site is the one to which you take verbose and pointless umbrage here. Therefore, your reference to her preferences is specious.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 07:28 am
Setanta wrote:
Virago's first post at this site is the one to which you take verbose and pointless umbrage here. Therefore, your reference to her preferences is specious.


I think you're confused, Setanta but as usual, you dance around the issue instead of fully explaining what you mean. This isn't like you in other threads. Here, on language issues, you must feel that that if you don't say much you can't stick your foot in your mouth.
0 Replies
 
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 07:39 am
Hmmm. I read the origin of the Specious once. If I recall correctly, it was "for the birds".

I know longer have pet birds, however. Sorry, carry on with the argument.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

deal - Question by WBYeats
Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Please, I need help. - Question by imsak
Is this sentence grammatically correct? - Question by Sydney-Strock
"come from" - Question by mcook
concentrated - Question by WBYeats
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 03/16/2025 at 04:02:01