What are your pet peeves re English usage?

@roger,

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I never cared much for "undocumented" either. It seems to suggest that "Oh well, they just forgot to bring along some 'documents'".

Good point, Rog. I noticed that was the precise definition in every dictionary I checked.

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@Quincy,

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Can we at least attempt to keep the discussion vaguely on-topic?

How dare you refer to my exquisite bombast as oxymoronically turgid and flaccid, my turgescence has never been in doubt.

Spelling is part of English usage so i spose iken be peeved about it if i wish (notwithstanding acceptable regional differences).

My pet peeve is a pet peeve that isnt.

But Thomac deserves eclat for his feckful neologism euphemers.

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@laughoutlood,

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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

I abhor the use of words which are misspelled, pronounced incorrectly, used ungrammatically, foreign and otherwise unfamiliar.

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@laughoutlood,

You do know that abhorrere is Latin, don't you? Wink

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This is a headline in the New York Times today

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What Cornfields Show, Data Now Confirm: July Set Mark as U.S.'s Hottest Month

I would never use "data" as a plural, tho' it evidently started off life that way.

Surely it's a singular nowadays?

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@McTag,

The Wall Street Journal has just published a blog post, in which it finally decides to move away from data "are", saying:

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Most style guides and dictionaries have come to accept the use of the noun data with either singular or plural verbs, and we hereby join the majority.

As usage has evolved from the word's origin as the Latin plural of datum, singular verbs now are often used to refer to collections of information: Little data is available to support the conclusions.

Otherwise, generally continue to use the plural: Data are still being collected.

(As a singular/plural test, try to substitute statistics for data: It doesn’t work in the first case — little statistics is available — so the singular is fails to pass muster. The substitution does work in the second case — statistics are still being collected – so the plural are passes muster.)

I noticed a joke lower down the page...

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We suspect that the plural will continue to dominate in our prose. But between you and I, if your mad at the Journal for deciding to egregiously flaunt proper grammar, you’ll know who to complain to.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/07/05/is-data-is-or-is-data-aint-a-plural/

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@contrex,

the do we do away with datum entirely? SO many words so little time to give a rat's ass.

We have style manuals for science and the word data is a plural form of datum. Thats good enough for me and anyway, when my associate does up my words, she does it with USGS style manuals in mind.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

do we do away with datum entirely?

Disciplines where 'datum' has a clearly understood meaning aren't going to do away with it.

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For those of you interested in learning about the first English dictionary should read "The Meaning of Everything" by Simon Winchester.

Mr Winchester does his research well before attempting to write his story, so we get to learn about the personalities who worked on the first dictionary.

It's an amazing and interesting story.

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@farmerman,

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Thats good enough for me and anyway, when my associate does up my words, she does it with USGS style manuals in mind.

You allow people to do up your words do you?

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@contrex,

The Wall Street Journal wrote

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As usage has evolved from the word's origin as the Latin plural of datum, singular verbs now are often used to refer to collections of information: Little data is available to support the conclusions.

Otherwise, generally continue to use the plural: Data are still being collected.

and I think that's really stupid, and not in the least helpful. Make up your minds already.

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@McTag,

Of course it's stupid, McTag. It comes from a style guide for dog's sake. What do you expect from such a seriously confused bumch.

Words that come from other languages adopt the rules of the new language. It's only for these assholes that think they are highbrow and it's only for the languages that they mistakenly think are highbrow.

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@farmerman,

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We have style manuals for science and the word data is a plural form of datum. Thats good enough for me and anyway, when my associate does up my words, she does it with USGS style manuals in mind.

Here's a dandy example of those ignorant pedants.

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@farmerman,

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We have style manuals for science and the word data is a plural form of datum. Thats good enough for me

You've suggested before that you are an academic, Farmer. Are you sure?

Is phrenology also good enough for you?

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@JTT,

JTT says:

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Words that come from other languages adopt the rules of the new language. It's only for these assholes that think they are highbrow and it's only for the languages that they mistakenly think are highbrow.

You were wrong about this before, and you're still wrong. It's simply not an absolute, which is the way you state it. Words borrowed do in fact usually follow the rules of the borrowing language, but there are also numerous examples where they don't. And it's not pedants who preserve them.

In this case, as someone (Roger?) noted, there are fields of study where "datum" is used for one data point. It's alive and well where it's appropriate, and so plural "data" still makes sense. That ain't "pedantry"--that's appropriate usage. I'd also be inclined to say "the data say...." when I'm talking about a bunch of data points, or a lot of different kinds of data. If you want to talk about "data" as an aggregate mass and use a singular verb, fine. the point is, there are different contexts where singular works better and there are ones where plural works better. Who the ****, other than JTT, cares.

Now to resume the previous discussion, I'll accede to the curmudgeonly Setanta, he's right, we had nothing to do with geek or nerd humor.

To expand, I've thought about a number of the Hebrew -im plural marker which survive in English (It:'s "Hebrew", not "Jewish", as you characterize it: Hebrew is the language the word comes from, "Jewish" is the adjective for people who practice a religion, who may or may not speak Hebrew.

Cherubim, seraphim, Hassidim, Sephardim, Ashkenazim, kibbutzim, goyim all survive as plural forms in English and have for decades. They're familiar in areas which have a significant Jewish population, like New Jersey, New York, and Massachusetts. I know. That's where I've lived, and that's where I learned them (And I might note here cherubim and seraphim have survived because that's what they appear as in the Christian bible--they've survived because of Christian religious usage--"cherub" has passed into non-religious contexts to describe somebody usually young who's impossibly cute, which is probably why "cherubs: is overtaking "cherubim" but "seraph"--whatever the hell a seraph is, I've ever looked it up--has not, so "seraphim" according to the counts you posted still leads substantially). That's not pedantry--it's because those words serve important functions in particular communities. You tend to pay no attention to a lot of the social functions of language.

You're being pedantic about this, JTT, not the people who actually use the language. You should probably read an actual style guide, like the APA or Farmer's USGS. Particularly in the sciences they serve a valuable function in standardizing the formats of papers and theses.

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And no, JTT, I've never said borrowed words MUST retain their foreign plural forms, as you said I did, I said that sometimes they DO retain their other-language plurals in common usage. That's a simple statement of reality. Sometimes your reading comprehension is a bit off.

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@MontereyJack,

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Cherubim, seraphim, Hassidim, Sephardim, Ashkenazim, kibbutzim, goyim all survive as plural forms in English and have for decades

That's so, but they often get redoubled eg cherubims and seraphims. Have you noticed that?

Also bedouins for the bedou arabs. Bedouin is the plural.

Just sayin'.

Season's greetings to pedants everywhere.

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@MontereyJack,

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You were wrong about this before, and you're still wrong. It's simply not an absolute, which is the way you state it.

That's not at all how I have stated it, MJ, though you have continually tried to advance this lie, along with some others. I addressed this specifically in another post where you advanced the lie that I was being prescriptive. I illustrated, in oh so an abundantly clear fashion, that people were free to use whatever form they wanted.

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Words borrowed do in fact usually follow the rules of the borrowing language, but there are also numerous examples where they don't.

You shouldn't steal others [mine] ideas and pass them off as your own, MJ.

Not "usually follow the rules of the borrowing language", MJ, overwhelmingly follow the rules of the borrowing language. As I've noted and you have agreed, it's really only for Latin that this is done. Other languages don't do this, though I can't say that there aren't also ignorant pedants in those languages trying to impress people with their pseudo knowledge.

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And it's not pedants who preserve them.

Who else is there besides pedants [pejorative] who try to preserve what is, by your own admission, not natural to the rules of languages?

Both you and Merry have been advancing these arguments - well, I should note that Merry the pedant took a powder waaaaay early in the game; surprise, surprise.

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In this case, as someone (Roger?) noted, there are fields of study where "datum" is used for one data point.

"one data"
About 5,750,000 results

"one datum"
About 49,100 results

Of course there are and those pedants, like you and Merry, are free to continue in their snooty ignorance. Smile

You see, MJ, all I have been saying is don't try and describe those who are following the natural rules of their language as the ignorant ones.

Merry Andrew tried to position himself as one of the educated ones, a person who was above the common rabble. All he did was make a right fool of himself, made all the worse because he was such a coward when it came to defending "his" position.

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It's alive and well where it's appropriate, and so plural "data" still makes sense. That ain't "pedantry"--that's appropriate usage.

I agree. I agreed from the outset. Honest usage isn't pedantry, but what Merry Andrew [aka Lustig Andrei; and those of his ilk] have tried to present is pedantry, in the most pejorative sense of the word.

You too, were being a pedant, in the highly pejorative sense of the word, but you seem to be coming to your senses.

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Who the ****, other than JTT, cares.

As if that shouldn't be abundantly clear to you by now, Jack. People who rightly object to ignorant assholes maligning those who are in no way ignorant.

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I'll accede to the curmudgeonly Setanta, he's right, we had nothing to do with geek or nerd humor.

You could search long and hard before you would find one who could match Setanta for pedantry.

You reminded me of Region's geek/nerd posting in Post: # 5,208,856.

But even here, you're off the mark, Jack. Being exceedingly knowledgeable about a particular topic is the very mark of a geek/nerd. Granted, this discussion has had its poseurs, Merry for example, even you, but at least you were in there pitchin'.

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

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