What are your pet peeves re English usage?

@Joeblow,

Quote:

My son still insists on saying "I seen it." I heard his dad say it the other day. The penny dropped!
~~~~
I know I've complained here about it before, but I'm at the white knuckle stage with that one.

I'd like to understand what the problem is, Joe.

1 Reply

@JTT,

NO! You'll just tell me to smarten up.

2 Replies

@JTT,

Quote:

You are of the opinion that people don't have a right to express falsehoods on any subject. A 'right', in the sense that they are to free to write/say what they want and that right includes that they will receive no criticism.

I would really appreciate it if you would stop putting words into my mouth, so to speak. You can have no idea of what my opinions are if you are basing your suppositions on this most recent colloquy we've just had.

1 Reply

@Joeblow,

Well? Sorry, the devil made me say that~! LOL

1 Reply

@Joeblow,

Quote:

NO! You'll just tell me to smarten up.

That's cute.

My son still insists on saying "I seen it." I heard his dad say it the other day.

I suspect that "his dad" is your husband and if I'm correct then I also suspect that 'dad' is about the same age as you, Joe. If he is that, then I know that he knows that the past participle 'seen' needs an auxiliary verb, in this case, 'have', the one you feel is missing.

It has been the trend for at least a hundred years or so for NaE speakers to simplify the use of the present perfect. We now use it, for at least two of its uses, the present perfect of experience [Have you ever skied?] and the present perfect of currentness/importance [I have seen it/I've seen it/I seen it] in quite a different fashion to that of BrE.

For speech, there has always been preference for shortening words; speakers invented contractions. Even BrE speakers use contractions for they're as natural as, well, how can I say this, as natural as speaking.

For the one in question, the present perfect of currentness/importance [I have seen it/I've seen it/I seen it], it has also been that trend for the 'have' to be contracted, then for the contraction to receive less and less aspiration until it is almost voiceless or it is voiceless.

Listen carefully to dad's and son's use. You might notice some differences. Dad's may well be almost voiceless while son's could well be an unvoiced 'have'. It's simply a condition of speech and further, casual speech and even further, youth casual speech.

Your son will grow up to use, ... in fact, I'd bet that even now, he knows the difference between a "I seen it" for casual, excited, rapid speech and an "I've seen it" for more reserved formal situations.

We've all been able to withstand the change from 'have +PP' to 've +PP. It's a small change, and one that isn't always even made, most are just subject to varying degrees of voicing.

Correcting won't make a difference to your son's natural speech patterns, or dad's for that matter. It's like trying to stop them from breathing or showing them a better way to walk.

Blue jeans and T shirts for casual days, ripped blue jeans and a tattered old threadbare T shirt for even more casual days. For the times when it's need, okay, a tux.

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Quote:

I would really appreciate it if you would stop putting words into my mouth...

You could fix that easily enough, Merry, by putting your own words to paper. [a bit of a dated phrase, ain't it?]

0 Replies

@spendius,

JTT fraudulently alleged:
(as quoted by Spendius)

Quote:

You really don't seem to be offering much support for David's position, Aidan.
David took the pedantic position that Spendi "should" only use a plural verb with 'media',
when 'media' is a singular and a plural form.

David defended and innocently protested:
Spendius' quote has shown that
I have been defamed, aspersed and calumniated by JTT,
to whom truth is radically alien.

He has misquoted me as set forth above,
falsely alleging that I misspelled the word shoud,
by jamming an l into it, immediately before the d.
This is FALSE: I spelled it: shoud, with NO Ls in it.
Let everyone behold the deception of the mendacious JTT.

spendius wrote:

Quote:

An interesting bitchy pair of sentences as ever a Chairman of a meeting to ratify the up-dated Bowling Club rules raised an eyebrow to as he rested his sore elbows on the table and gazed dolefully into the eyes of the only other bloke on the Committee during the discussion on Clause 4b in Part Two of R&Rs, as they are known everywhere where the chattering classes have clubs, ( a copy is on the wall beside the bar) specifically relating to ingress into the gate which leads to the path which goes past the Ladies Changing Room Windows and, the substantial matter, under which Head of Section the control of the key to the padlock on the gate should be vested

Notice how Dave is so callously and summarily dismissed for being wrong and pedantic with it. A view I share.

Becksie is painted as an inbetweener and her posts not even considered.

And I, spendi, is vindicated, validated and peer-reviewed.

Medias being the plural form.

David questioned:
Spendius thinks that the word "Medias" is the plural form; I guess that 's double plural ?
I had thawt him to have been better educated,
but I was only guessing; I am humble enuf to admit that sometimes I can be rong.
The momentum of my humility is indefatigable
and exceeded only by the vigor of my modesty.

spendius wrote:

Quote:

To be strictly scientific
I would define Media as that complex body
of intertwined forces which places itself in between a transmitter and a receiver,
usually for money and always affecting the communication.
i.e. corrupting it. A force.

Like with "Woman" used as a singular to denote that force in the world to which
we all owe so much and which deserves our unbounded admiration and respect.

OK.
If u say so; which science is that ?

2 Replies

Quote:

And I, spendi, is vindicated, validated and peer-reviewed.

Huh? Shouldn't that be:
'And I, spendi, AM vindicated, validated and peer-reviewed' ?!

What is happening to your grammar?

(JTT - this HAS to qualify as a legitimate mistake or at least an understandable peeve, if someone were to get peeved at people making grammatical mistakes).

2 Replies

@aidan,

You nearly fell for it Becksie.

My really big peeve is "to be honest". Or "to be perfectly honest" . Or "to be perfectly frank and honest". Or "I'm not shitting you". Or "No kidding".

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Dave--what's up with "thote". I used to use it when I wanted to conjure up a country gump mentality.

You seem to have a problem with "educated". As far as I can tell "uneducated" involves a comparison with yourself and "better educated" a state which others can only aspire to.

Do you shake a talcum powder dispenser down the front of your Y-fronts before you sally forth for an evening at the coal face?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I have been defamed, aspersed and calumniated by JTT,

There's absolutely nothing I could do, that anyone could do, to bring greater shame upon OmSigDavid than what Om Sig does to himself, all by his 'lil ole lonesome.

0 Replies

@spendius,

Quote:

My really big peeve is "to be honest". Or "to be perfectly honest" . Or "to be perfectly frank and honest". Or "I'm not shitting you". Or "No kidding".

Just this once I find myself in perfect agreement with you. I detest those phrases. But that's not a language peeve. My point is that I distrust anyone who would start a conversation with a phrase such as "To tell you the truth . . ." Am I to assume then that under ordinary circumstances this person does not tell the truth?

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Quote:

"To tell you the truth . . ." Am I to assume then that under ordinary circumstances this person does not tell the truth?

I think that one could make that assumption, Merry, but I believe that it would be foolhardy to make that your sole assumption.

That person might be making a soft suggestion that you have been the recipient of some less than truthful info that you've taken to heart and they could be trying to soften the blow.

Or ...

Or ...

Or ...

0 Replies

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

You nearly fell for it Becksie.

My really big peeve is "to be honest". Or "to be perfectly honest" . Or "to be perfectly frank and honest".
Or "I'm not shitting you". Or "No kidding".

Spendius, I believe that the effective intention
of these practices is to imply that the hearer shoud not
be provoked to anger by the speaker 's candor;
i.e., he is subordinating charm and unlimited praise
to calling attention to the necessities of the situation.

It can also serve to assure the hearer that
he is being truthful and not joking, nor is he exagerating.
Accordingly, those frases can serve a useful purpose.

David

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:

Dave--what's up with "thote".
I used to use it when I wanted to conjure up a country gump mentality.

For a moment,
u put me in fear that I had committed a typo,
for which I prepared to apologize.
However, upon examination of my writing,
I fail to find that I have fallen into this error.
If I ever write "thote" it will be an accidental typografical error
for which I will now apologize prospectively, but not retroactively.

(I don 't know whether guys say "thote" when thay get grumpy in the country, nor which country.)

spendius wrote:

Quote:

You seem to have a problem with "educated".

???? Does that mean I have to start over ?
Its been a while.

spendius wrote:

Quote:

As far as I can tell "uneducated" involves a comparison with yourself
and "better educated" a state which others can only aspire to.

I was only referring to your use of a plural word
as if it were singular, and the multiple plurality that u advocated.
Actually, I was kidding u.
I hope that I did not hurt your feelings. I have no idea of the extent of your education.

I noticed that recently u got excited n denunciatory
about my speaking to less educated citizens.
Do u insist that I confine my society to citizens whose educations
have risen to levels that u deem more acceptable ?

spendius wrote:

Quote:

Do you shake a talcum powder dispenser
down the front of your Y-fronts before you sally forth for an evening at the coal face?

I have had no contact with coal since the 1940s.
Talcum powder is good after a shower; do u agree with that ?

David

2 Replies

I am at a loss for the heat and silly debate my mention of "respect as a verb" pet peeve has caused. I have access to many reference books, and my personal copy of Websters' New Universal Unabridged Dictionary, Delux second edition, also lists respect as a noun and not a verb,,,,and additionally the word "disrespected" does not appear as a verb in fact it doesn't appear at all. A few of you yahoos may want to continue this ridiculous arm twisting over what people like or dislike, and characterize it as "wrong", but it doesn't change anything.]

And for Joe Blow, I would never correct a peer over verbal usuage or my idea of a mistake unless they were getting ready to make a presentation or speech and then only if they asked me to edit or review what they planned to present.. But when it comes to our children, we owe them the opportunity to learn to speak in a way that will not make them sound stupid. I have heard folks say "I aint never seen nothing like it", double negative....I know what they mean, wouldn't dream of correcting them, but if my kids used it, I would try to impress them with the idea that you might come off sounding less than you are to someone who doesn't know you.

The Rolling Stones sing "I can't get no satisfaction" and I don't think anyone wants it to be stated differently, it's music, and expression. I doubt seriously that Mick Jagger has ever seriously used that phrase to describe his irritation over musical cords. Linguistically, I am enamoured with the various idioms and accents that this country uses especially the differences from region to region or state to state. I don't want to change any of that, even if I had such a power. But I am getting peeved about the manic methods used by "someone" trying to make preference a matter of right or wrong. I think you could describe his/her obsession as a peevish display of meglomania.

After this, why don't we all migrate over to "what did you have for breakfast" and ridicule everybody's posts....that seems to be as usefull as beating this issue to death. God forbide someone admits to drinking orange juice and reveals their inferior tastes in beverage.

3 Replies

@glitterbag,

Quote:

But I am getting peeved about the manic methods used by "someone" trying to make preference a matter of right or wrong. I think you could describe his/her obsession as a peevish display of meglomania.

I, for one, think your description would be right on target, glitter.

2 Replies

@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

Quote:

I am at a loss for the heat and silly debate my mention of "respect as a verb"
pet peeve has caused. I have access to many reference books,
and my personal copy of Websters' New Universal Unabridged Dictionary,
Delux second edition, also lists respect as a noun and not a verb,,,,
and additionally the word "disrespected" does not appear
as a verb in fact it doesn't appear at all. A few of you yahoos
may want to continue this ridiculous arm twisting over what people like or dislike,

and characterize it as "wrong", but it doesn't change anything.]

I catigorize it as RONG.

glitterbag wrote:

Quote:

And for Joe Blow, I would never correct a peer over verbal usuage
or my idea of a mistake unless they were getting ready to make a
presentation or speech and then only if they asked me to edit
or review what they planned to present.. But when it comes to our children,
we owe them the opportunity to learn to speak in a way that will not
make them sound stupid. I have heard folks say "I aint never seen
nothing like it", double negative....I know what they mean,
wouldn't dream of correcting them, but if my kids used it,
I would try to impress them with the idea that you might come
off sounding less than you are to someone who doesn't know you.

I am at a loss qua how to relate to children qua correcting their errors.
For instance,
about 2 or 3 summers ago, as I was approaching the entrance
of a restaurant from its parking lot, I saw a boy looking about 11 years old,
near me as he also approached its front door.
I saw him raise his hand, very black with dirt, and stare at it.
Somehow I intuited that he was deciding whether to lick his hand.
It occurred to me to yell something out, to stop him.
I restrained myself: none of my business. He was a stranger.
He DID it.
I thawt this was an egregious error on his part, unsanitary, but none of my business.
Somehow, in the back of my mind, I remain uncertain of whether I was correct
to respect his autonomy and remain silent.

glitterbag wrote:

Quote:

The Rolling Stones sing "I can't get no satisfaction"
and I don't think anyone wants it to be stated differently, it's music, and expression.

Apparently, he exults in his state of enduring satisfaction.

glitterbag wrote:

Quote:

I doubt seriously that Mick Jagger has ever seriously used that phrase
to describe his irritation over musical cords. Linguistically, I am
enamoured with the various idioms and accents that this country uses
especially the differences from region to region or state to state.
I don't want to change any of that, even if I had such a power.
But I am getting peeved about the manic methods used
by "someone" trying to make preference a matter of right or wrong.
I think you could describe his/her obsession as a peevish display of meglomania.

Let 's track him down and ride him out on a rail.
We don 't put up with that kind of stuff.

glitterbag wrote:

Quote:

After this, why don't we all migrate over to "what did you have for breakfast"
and ridicule everybody's posts....that seems to be as usefull
as beating this issue to death. God forbide someone admits to drinking orange juice
and reveals their inferior tastes in beverage.

I 'll meet u later.
I 'm not a breakfast person.
Let us know how that works out.

David

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Quote:

But I am getting peeved about the manic methods used by "someone" trying to make preference a matter of right or wrong.

Glittterbag has missed it by a mile and apparently you have too, Merry. It's the prescriptivists who try " to make preference a matter of right or wrong". You know that yet you still play the disingenuous card.

And you seem so damn reluctant to lay your cards on the table, so you hedge around the issue, seemingly more confused with each posting.

0 Replies

@glitterbag,

Quote:

I have heard folks say "I aint never seen nothing like it", double negative....I know what they mean, wouldn't dream of correcting them, but if my kids used it, I would try to impress them with the idea that you might come off sounding less than you are to someone who doesn't know you.

Actually, a triple negative, GB, ain't, never (not ever) & nothing.

Of course you know what they mean. But prescriptivists, idiots that they are, tried to tell us that a double negative makes a positive. But as you know, brilliant lady that you are, and every other native speaker of English on the planet knows, a double negative does NOT mean a positive, that is, until it does.

If your kids are half as bright as you, they don't need to be told to worry about those who would make such a silly judgment based on hearing someone utter one sentence.

0 Replies

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know