63
   

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 08:03 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Oh yes!!


Explain ?
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 09:34 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
How horribly plebeian to drop one's haitches.

http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/wordfrom/aitches/?view=uk
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:06 am
@oolongteasup,
that was interesting - and reminds me of another question - why do British people call an 'aitch' (the letter) a 'haitch'? My surname/last name starts with an H - but when I spell it out loud- they resay it 'haitch' _ _ _ _....

Also - why do British people say 'zed' instead of z when they pronounce the name of the last letter of the alphabet?
The first time I was asking about directions to a street - I was talking to the headmaster of the school my children were going to and he said, really quickly, 'You need to get an 'A to Zed'.
Well, I had no idea what he was talking about and couldn't understand what the title of this book was, (having never heard the word Zed before), so after asking him to repeat it three times and still being unable to make sense of it, I said, 'I'm sorry - do you mind writing that title out for me - so I can make sure I ask for the right thing when I go to buy one?'
He wrote -' A to Z' and explained it was a street directory called 'A to Zed' by everyone- even I call it that now.


*these aren't peeves - just questions about things I've noticed.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:14 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

that was interesting - and reminds me of another question - why do British people call an 'aitch' (the letter) a 'haitch'?

Also - why do British people say 'zed' instead of z when they pronounce the name of the last letter of the alphabet?


The only idea I have is that English is a Germanic language. And they still pronounce it (similar) like it has been done originally (and is pronounced in other Germanic languages).
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
So do you think that the pronunciations were changed (made less Germanic) in American English gradually over the course of years as its language influences (in terms of words and pronunciations) went from one primary source to many?
So that now, what we speak and pronounce in American English is more of a melding or amalgamation of influences than in some other countries?

In other words - did Americans say Haitch and Zed until maybe say, the 18th century?
* I guess I could do this research - but as Robert said - this IS a form of research - I'm just hoping maybe someone will know this off the top of their head.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:34 am
@aidan,
I've no source for such.

But since the Americans changed the written English - I think, spoken language would have been the first step.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
that makes sense - (and I meant to say 19th century).
Makes me think it would have been interesting to actually have been able to hear our forefathers speak.
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:23 am
@aidan,
Aidan a bet, is the foggiest notion funny or not?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:59 am
@aidan,

Quote:
that was interesting - and reminds me of another question - why do British people call an 'aitch' (the letter) a 'haitch'? My surname/last name starts with an H - but when I spell it out loud- they resay it 'haitch' _ _ _ _....


I don't say "haitch", and in my experience, only uneducated or lower-class people do.
I could tell you a joke about dropped and added "h"'s, and it 's not "'orrible 'orace 'it 'is 'orse on the 'head with a 'eavy 'ammer."

Quote:

Also - why do British people say 'zed' instead of z when they pronounce the name of the last letter of the alphabet?


I suppose, because that's its name. Why do Americans say zee?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 02:19 am
@McTag,
Quote:
I don't say "haitch", and in my experience, only uneducated or lower-class people do.

I'm going to take an informal survey- today - I'm asking every British person I see, whose level of education I know, to say the alphabet for me.
Quote:

I could tell you a joke about dropped and added "h"'s, and it 's not "'orrible 'orace 'it 'is 'orse on the 'head with a 'eavy 'ammer."

Go ahead - tell me - I'm always looking for good jokes and don't worry if it's bawdy- the bawdier the better (to a certain extent Laughing )
Quote:
Why do Americans say zee?

That's what I'm trying to find out. I like to know why I say what I say.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 02:37 am
@oolongteasup,
Quote:
Aidan a bet, is the foggiest notion funny or not?

It depends.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 03:44 am

Okay here's the joke.

I was in a class in college, and we were having a lesson (civil engineering) in Materials of Construction. The lecturer said:

"That reminds me of the cockney REME Sergeant who was giving a talk about materials to his platoon of soldiers: " Now we come to the types of wood we use in our work, the 'ard woods like the h'elm, the h'oak and the h'ash. These are used for things like piles for piers. And when I say piles for piers, I don't mean 'aemmorhoids for the h'aristocracy.""
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:39 am
McTag wrote:
Why do Americans say zee?


Quote:
In American English, its name is zee /ziː/, deriving from a late 17th-century English dialectal form.

Source
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 03:13 pm
@Francis,

However rhetorical the question, dear Francis, I am indebted to you once again for an informative reply.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 12:01 am
@McTag,
Quote:
"That reminds me of the cockney REME Sergeant who was giving a talk about materials to his platoon of soldiers: " Now we come to the types of wood we use in our work, the 'ard woods like the h'elm, the h'oak and the h'ash. These are used for things like piles for piers. And when I say piles for piers, I don't mean 'aemmorhoids for the h'aristocracy.
Laughing Laughing

That reminds me of a story a friend told me - he's this very dignified Englishman and a native Londoner, so when he was a history major at university he used to make money as a tour guide in and around London. And he had this one particularly interesting guy who was a native Texan and oil rich who wanted a private tour for his wife and himself.
So he's taking these people around and they stop for lunch and the guy seems to have trouble sitting in the chair, which my friend notices - but at that age - he has no inkling why that might be - and then just as he's about to take a bite of his lunch the guy turns to him and says, 'Say - do yew ever get pahles?

Due to the Texan's pronunciation, my friend had to ask him to repeat it several times and then the guy finally says, 'You know, hym-er-oids', loudly enough for the whole restaurant to hear.
My friend said he just lowered his head and said, 'No sir - can't say that I do.'
Anyway - this friend of mine asked me (when I told him my family is originally from Texas) if all Texans are so forthcoming with strangers.
And when he wants to remind me of where I'm from he just puts on the Texas accent and asks, 'Say - do yew ever get pahles?' or 'Rebecca Jean - get goin' with that thar needle and do your fancy work...' or something silly like that- so I'm gonna remind him that even aristocrats get piles.

I did my survey - all the people over fifty say 'h' not haitch. A few of the younger folk said 'haitch'. They all said they notice people on soap operas saying 'haitch' but they don't know where the habit originated.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 12:02 am
@Francis,
Quote:
In American English, its name is zee /ziː/, deriving from a late 17th-century English dialectal form.

Ah-ha. Thanks Francis.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 12:48 am
@aidan,

Good story.

And you've got me there, aidan, I'll never see 49 again.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 12:49 am
@aidan,

My computer won't do emoticons any more, else I'd have put a smiley face up.
Should I be worried about this?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 01:11 am
@McTag,
no - you'll just have to start saying LOL (or ha-ha or hee-hee)- make an adaptation.
I used to use italics all the time to stress words - sort of how David uses different sized and colored fonts - and then my italiciz(s)er stopped working - I don't know why- so I started capitaliz(s)ing and now my italiciz(s)er works again, but I'm so used to capitaliz(s)ing, I'll never go back to italiciz(s)ing.

*I put the alternate s in just in case the American z (zed) is a pet spelling peeve of someone.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 03:47 am
@aidan,
Quote:
saying LOL (or ha-ha or hee-hee)- make an adaptation.


"The late 1990s called - they want their ell-oh-ell back."
0 Replies
 
 

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