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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 09:02 am
Thomas, re: "it ain't even funny." That used to be quite a common American idiomatic phrase. It rather dates the mayor, though, because I don't think it's in wide use any more. It might have survived regionally, though, and be still common in his corner of the South. Saying "it ain't even funny" or "it's not even funny" was a way of emphasizing just how serious the preceding statement had been.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 09:03 am
Thomas wrote:
It's not a peeve, but I recently noticed a phrase I liked in a now-famous interview with New Orleans' Mayor Ray Nagin. (Transcript here, mp3 audio file mirrored here.) It's "I'm going to be in so much trouble it ain't even funny." I enjoyed this figure of speech, though I would have prefered to get to know it in a less dramatic context. Is it a common phrase in English, especially American English? For what it's worth, I don't think I'd heard it so far.


It is fairly common here, in very informal speech, although we would say it without the "even". Such as in

"We had so much misfortune it's not funny"

But, repeat, very informally used. Wryly, and a bit sorrowful or self-deprecating.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 09:50 am
I see, McTag and Andrew. It makes sense, since the whole interview was rather ... informal.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 11:55 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
Saying "it ain't even funny" or "it's not even funny" was a way of emphasizing just how serious the preceding statement had been.


And that's no joke ! ! !
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 05:57 pm
gungasnake wrote:
What are your pet peeves re English usage?

Simple answer to that one: there's no rational way to spell anything in English. Somebody like St. Cyril needs to develop a reasonable phoenetic alphabet for English; at present, we don't really have one.


This has been discussed before, Gunga, but like most things difficult, it takes a bit of time and effort to get your brain wrapped around the reality. Rumors and old wives tales are easy to grasp.

You have rationally, ie. correctly spelled every word, ... oops, ... you blew 'phonetic'. Not to worry, it happens to us all.

Read this five times and each time think about it before you read it again.

Quote:


... writing systems do not aim to represent the actual sounds of talking, which we do not hear, but the abstract units of language underlying them, which we do hear."


Obviously, alphabets do not and should not correspond to sounds; at best they correspond to the phonemes specified in the mental dictionary. The actual sounds are different in different contexts, so true phonetic spelling would only obscure their underlying identity.

The surface sounds [JTT: the ones that caused all who read your post to give it the same meaning, thoughthe pronunciation may well have differed due to dialectal differences] are predictable by phonological rules, though, so there is no need to clutter up the page with symbols for the actual sounds; the reader needs only the abstract blueprint for a word and can flesh out the sound if needed."



Pay particular attention to this next part.

Quote:
Moreover, since dialects separated by time and space often differ most in the phonological rules that convert mental dictionary entries into pronunciations, a spelling corresponding to the underlying entries, not the sounds, can be widely shared. ... The goal of reading, after all, is to understand the text, not to pronounce it.



Here at A2K, we can 'talk' to Walter, McTag, Smile Thomas and many others from many other languages and we don't have to give a hoot about their foreign accents.

Hell, can you imagine even for the North American continent what a Tower of Babel this site would be if everyone sought to phonetisize their writing? I could well be puzzling over Squinney and Bear's writings or wading thru [just one borough] a New Yorker's 'speech'.

No one really reads what we write, that's an illusion. We absorb, for lack of a more apt description, the meaning on the page with no regard to the actual sounds.

Think about it, for it clearly illustrates the beauty and complexity of language. We all absorb meaning, even though we are separated by thousands of miles. The surface sounds have no meaning, for there are none, but the underlying language is full of meaning.

If we were reading one dialect's phonetics, we'd be puzzling over sounds instead of instantly capturing the meaning.

{everything contained within the quote boxes is from The Language Instinct by Steven Pinker}
0 Replies
 
Virago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 08:09 pm
McTag Wrote:
Quote:
I got some new underpants this week, and very comfortable they are too. Five in a pack.
So I looked at the label and it said "100% Cotton"

and then "Keep Away From Fire"

So I thought, who, and under what circumstances, applies fire to his underpants?

This is crazy.


Perhaps it's a warning for those who suffer from hemorrhoidal flair ups?

Da dum chink :wink:

Quote:
Any other mad signs which members have seen?
Such as "This product may contain nuts" on a jar of peanut butter?
(Go on, tell me a peanut is a legume, not a nut)

Just wondering....


On every hair dryer I've ever owned there is the caution: Do Not Use While Bathing.

*Blink*

You realize this means that someone at some time has in fact attempted to dry his hair while showering.

Virago
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 11:23 pm
When I was living up in the woods of New Hampshire, I heated the cabin with firewood, much of which I cut and split myself. To save on labor, I bought an electric-powered log-splitter from Sear's. On the side of this wonderful machine was the warning: Do not use this tool for any other purpose except that for which it is intended.

Now, that was a couple of decades ago. To this day I have yet to figure out to what other purpose a log-splitter could be put. I would stop in the middle of my work, stare at that message and think, "Gee, I wonder how this would work as a martini shaker."
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Doomed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:56 am
Merry - LOL You could crush 4-foot soda cans. You could stand it up and drive piles. You could open safes. Crush ice. Lift stuff using a block and tackle. Use it as a printing press ...

_____________

I just couldn't read all 207 pages of posts, so maybe somebody has already brought up the mis-use of "per se." If you can't substitute "in and of itself," please refrain! Of course, readers here know this. How to get the word out to the general public? Oy!

The other is "pre-existing" - thanks to insurance companies. What an anathema! Please - it existed or it didn't. Nothing can exist before it exists.

Thanks for listening.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 01:07 am
Doomed wrote:
the mis-use of "per se." If you can't substitute "in and of itself," please refrain! Of course, readers here know this. How to get the word out to the general public? Oy!


Since I don't get it, could you please give an example of that mis-use? (Nolens volens Laughing I admit, I use it now and then, like other Latinism, more in German, but in English as well.)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 02:26 am
Doomed wrote:
the mis-use of "per se." If you can't substitute "in and of itself," please refrain! Of course, readers here know this. How to get the word out to the general public? Oy!

Mea culpa.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 02:40 am
Stray bits of latin can be irksome, and can be a bit exclusive too- like professional jargon, designed to be that way

tabula rasa
pro bono
inter alia
quid pro quo

Some are commonplace- I personally don't mind them much (as long as it's one I've heard before!)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:02 am
Well, Doomed certainly has been fed them ad nauseam.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:15 am
And i suppose you thought your little ad nauseum was a sine qua non of wit?
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:39 am
Walter, I've heard per se misused by English-speaking Americans, too. Can't think of a specific example, but the problem, I think, is that se is pronounced like 'say'. People who don't really know what the phrase means use it just to sound smarter than they are. I've heard it used as a preposterous prepositional phrase: 'to per se,' or maybe 'to persay.'
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Doomed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 03:13 pm
I never took Latin. What IS the proper pronunciation of "se"? "see"?

****

The saddist use of a word I ever heard was from a radio interview where the interviewee (Engligh was his native tongue) was lost for words and said, "I just don't know how you'd even language that."

Wasn't that some kind of new-age fad? - pressing nouns to service as verbs ? I can't think of any other examples though.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 03:30 pm
per se sounds like per say.

Americans are always making nouns serve as verbs. I think there's a new one every day.

Can anyone table any examples?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 03:42 pm
Setanta wrote:
And i suppose you thought your little ad nauseum was a sine qua non of wit?

Cum grano salis, yes. For the most part though, I just like to play advocatus diaboli. I wouldn't carry it to the point where it becomes a casus belli.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:04 pm
Thomas wrote:

Cum grano salis, yes. For the most part though, I just like to play advocatus diaboli. I wouldn't carry it to the point where it becomes a casus belli.


Nihil obstat.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:09 pm
Perfect, Walter! Nunc est bibendum.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:14 pm
Vade retro Satana!
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