Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 10:43 am
@neologist,
So what? You're doing your usual dance, avoiding the implications of a valid criticism. You expect your magic sky daddy fairy tales to be taken seriously because of (alleged) coherence and internal consistency (which doesn't happen to be true). Therefore, one should take any work of fantasy as seriously if it is coherent and internally consistent. By those two criteria, The Lord of the Rings knocks your silly fantasy into a cocked hat.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 10:49 am
@neologist,
You wrote (but still don't understand),
Quote:
No.
But, as an integrated whole, one part cannot contradict the other without reason. A character cannot be good in one scene and evil in the next without explanation.


Why does god command "thou shalt not kill," but in other verses command that "*sinners be killed?"

You need to use a little bit of simple logic to understand god's message.

Quote:

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)


Such a loving and forgiving god. Where and how?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 10:56 am
@Setanta,
It was CI who mentioned works of fiction. I had no idea my answer would stimulate argumentum ad absurdum
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 11:03 am
@cicerone imposter,
So, you say capital punishment was severe.
I agree.
That's why the New Covenant does away with it.
But, of course.
You forgot that Adam and Eve were condemned to death. And that all of us die as a result.
Quote:
(Romans 5:12) . . .That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . .
Quote:
(Romans 6:23) . . .For the wages sin pays is death. . .
And murder is still a sin.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 11:22 am
@neologist,
Sophistry at its best! LOL Keep believing your fictional gods; you can get comfort from your ignorance.

Death is all part of life; without death none of us would be here. This planet can't handle the unlimited populations of animals and 'humans.' It's called logistics. The human population grows at factors not seen before in this planet's history. This planets resources are finite. Try to remember this.

As the saying goes, death and taxes are the facts of life.

Simple human equation: fools gold = fools gods
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 01:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I see you revere quotations from Einstein. How about this one?
Quote:
God does not throw dice
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 01:28 pm
@neologist,
Oh? What kind of revelation is that supposed to be? LOL

PROMOTED: God never makes mistakes.
Me: Why does he contradict himself so often?
Thou shalt no kill, but you must kill when I say so. Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

Have you stoned to death any homosexual lately? Is your god more important than civil laws? You still haven't proven yourself to be a true christian. LOL
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 03:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Have you stoned to death any homosexual lately?


How do you know, ci., that those people didn't consider, from previous experience, that male homosexuality was as dangerous as you now think passing secrets to enemies is?

That we now consider male homosexuality not in the least dangerous makes your comparison between then and today ridiculous. As does the fact that they couldn't afford a prison population of the size you now have. Not to mention that they were not Christians.

Your underestimation of other cultures, about which you know nothing worth knowing, speaks loudly that you are not qualified to spout on these matters and that all you have is an anti-Christian agenda but lack the nerve to pursue it properly.

No society sacrifices fit young men without a good reason. And the threat might have been sufficient to ensure that no actual stonings too place.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 04:01 pm
@spendius,
You wrote,
Quote:
That we now consider male homosexuality not in the least dangerous makes your comparison between then and today ridiculous.


No. The facts have always been that homosexuality was lambasted based on religious teachings in the bible. Those teachings have always been wrong. There's no correction to be made from 2000 years ago to today. Homosexuality is normal in most animal life. Homosexuals never did anything wrong. It's the religious teachings that said it's wrong. It's only a 'sin' in the religious sense.

What's more 'dangereous' are heterosexual behaviors towards the opposite sex, discrimination against homosexuals, child molestation and rape, rape, incest, and divorce that affects children. Homosexuals are no more guilty of bad sexual behavior than heterosexuals.

InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 04:05 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
The last chapter of the Bible warns against those who would add to its instruction. (Mormons take note, also.)


The last chapter of the Bible was written hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 04:13 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:
The last chapter of the Bible warns against those who would add to its instruction. (Mormons take note, also.)


The last chapter of the Bible was written hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled.


Wow.

I woulda bet big bucks that every book of the Bible was written at least hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled!

Not sure of your point???
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 04:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It would seem it depends on which books of the bible; old testament vs new testament.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 04:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It would seem it depends on which books of the bible; old testament vs new testament.


Don't you think ALL of them were written hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 04:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:
The last chapter of the Bible warns against those who would add to its instruction. (Mormons take note, also.)


The last chapter of the Bible was written hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled.


Wow.

I woulda bet big bucks that every book of the Bible was written at least hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled!

Not sure of your point???


The point is that neo is using a portion of the Bible that asserts a warning against those who would add to its instruction before that instruction was compiled.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 05:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The facts have always been that homosexuality was lambasted based on religious teachings in the bible.


Your blasé assumption that religious teachings are not derived from the economic interests of the society is infantile. It is the source of all your confusion.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 06:09 pm
@spendius,
Economic? Where did you 'learn' that? LOL
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 07:19 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The last chapter of the Bible was written hundreds of years before the Bible was compiled.
The Muratorian Fragment was compiled about 170 C.E. It included Revelation. So that would be about 70 years.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 07:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Simple human equation: fools gold = fools gods
What clever wordplay, CI.
Don't injure your back whilst taking your bows.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 07:36 pm
@neologist,
No bows needed; that equation speak volumes about how humans are hoodwinked so easily.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 07:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quite right. But consider how you have been hoodwinked by those who tell you what's in the Bible without you actually checking it out.

Once I believed just as you. Then, for some unknown reason, one time I listened.
 

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