10
   

What do you think about world?

 
 
Joona
 
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2015 05:22 pm
My friends are rationalists and cant understand how i can believe in God. I feel he is watcing and he has made miracle for me. Most usual point is how God created inperfect world with pain, hatered,anger, but isint it hard to understand how great heavenly perfection would be if you had never seen inperfection. Im saying that i think that it is our job here, feel the wars, hunger, hatered and pain. Maybe the second point would be something like "Science prowes that world is growing from point of centre of our universum" I say mabe the test results arent good, or why would bigbang theory remove god from universum maybe God just bored empty world and started time, chaos, history and finfinite number of funny and ironic stories. Im just 15 years old boy so im asking how much my vision is differend from yours.
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Type: Question • Score: 10 • Views: 4,621 • Replies: 44
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GoodNews2015
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:44 pm
@Joona,
Dear Joona
Please visit www.jw.org
Science and the Bible go together.
There is an explanation for why we see wars, disease, and suffering.
No one can explain where life originates or energy.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 11:17 pm
@Joona,
The world and mankind were created perfect.
But Adam and Eve chose to sin.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 11:35 pm
I think the world is just fine without any detectable gods.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 11:42 pm
@Joona,
Joona wrote:
I feel he is watcing and he has made miracle for me.

What are these miracles that you feel God has done for you?
0 Replies
 
GoodNews2015
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2015 05:57 pm
@neologist,
Exactly.
north
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2015 05:36 pm
@GoodNews2015,

I think the World is far too religious and that the belief in Humanity is absent , in this world.
0 Replies
 
GorDie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 07:09 pm
@Joona,
AHAHAHHA. Your friends by definition are NOT rationalists or scientists if they do not believe in God.

First. the Third Day of Creation is scientifically factual. All the geology of the planet Proves that the planet expanded from within itself as depicted. This is an easy experiment to do. You simply: remove all surface area of the planet whish is salt water; flatten he mountains. And in doing so, all the coast lines will line up perfectly* not one flaw. all dimensions are perfectly as required to align. This happened when the Light entered the planet and the mater under the crust expanded and separated it. Creation Fact. #1 I win by default.

#2 Hinduism is monotheist. Krishna is all, and all other gods and entities are apart of God, as aspects of his person and personality. suggest you read the Bhagavad Gita if you are still in denial of this fact.
Chaos, ins Greek mythology alone created the sky, heavens, sea, earth, darkness, time, intelligence, mountains, currents, living things, sun, moon, stars, etc... and He as a Being entity is as Jesus said, Unknowable and Infinitely Awesome. He can be the father of anything, which can scientifically occur, and technically is (including imaginary AND unperceivable substance).

#3 Morals are real, not fictitious man made opinion statements.


But, if you wish for me to speak about how I feel about the world. I feel it is delightful, exhilarating, interesting, and peaceful. I think taming it is empowering, and experiencing it is endlessly satisfying, and that meeting others who live 100% different lives, even if they have been your bets friend your entire life is baffling.

I think however, that it is as perfect as it can be. It supplies all required elements to not only simplify itself but also become more complex. to expand and be suppressed. It can evolve and develop.

It is the Only "world" I could ever imagine, and justly God decreed in the Book of Revelations that it is the location of our afterlife. [before or after purgatory, hell, hallucination or greater+lesser splendor]. Also as a Muslim,
I believe in many great things which Hinduism touches on which the non philosophical HISTORY of the Israeli people does not.

hope peace and blessings
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 07:32 pm
@Joona,
Joona wrote:

My friends are rationalists and cant understand how i can believe in God.


Well just the part about them being rationalist would be pretty obvious why they can't understand how you can believe in god. It is not a rational position to take. You have no credible thing that supports the existence of a god. It is all conjecture. So many cultures have had gods yet you don't follow any of those gods, just the god your culture imposed upon you. You didn't naturally come to the conclusion that a god exists, you were more than likely indoctrinated into believing one does, because your family, perhaps some friends or just the small community you are in does.

Joona wrote:

I feel he is watcing and he has made miracle for me.


I always think this is a funny thing for believers to say. A god that has the power to create a universe with it's complex yet beautiful laws, of physics and chemistry would find you that interesting to "watch"? It almost sounds egotistical to think such a powerful being would really even care all that much. To draw a parallel it would be like you watching an amoeba day in and day out. Not all that interesting.

Joona wrote:

Most usual point is how God created inperfect world with pain, hatered,anger, but isint it hard to understand how great heavenly perfection would be if you had never seen inperfection.


This is what you call the appeal to lack of experience argument. Where you haven't experienced what it would be like to exist for eternity in a paradise that is completely and utterly free from, aging, sickness, negative emotions, and death. It would seem to me that heaven would become a boring prison after a while because it's the struggle, the very imperfection of this existence which gives everything value. If everything was great all the time, things would lose their value because there is no fear of loss.

Joona wrote:

Im saying that i think that it is our job here, feel the wars, hunger, hatered and pain.


It's our job? We create the wars, hunger, hatred and pain ourselves. So why would it be our job to overcome these things? Not to mention that religion is often the catalyst for wars, hunger, hatred and pain.

Joona wrote:

Maybe the second point would be something like "Science prowes that world is growing from point of centre of our universum"


I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. I assume you mean the expansion of the universe? Well technically if the universe was infinite in size then every point would be the center. But I'm not sure if the universe is infinite or even expanding.

Joona wrote:

I say mabe the test results arent good, or why would bigbang theory remove god from universum


Well the argument is, there can be explanations or reasons that are perfectly natural as to why the universe came into existence without the need for an intelligent highly complex god to make it happen.

Joona wrote:

maybe God just bored empty world and started time, chaos, history and finfinite number of funny and ironic stories.


Well even believers shut down this as being an explanation because god is suppose to be perfect and completely free from any wants or needs. So supposedly god would never be bored.

Joona wrote:

Im just 15 years old boy so im asking how much my vision is differend from yours.


Well my vision is quite a bit different than yours, but I've also had a lot more time and experience than you have. I'm not the type of person that accepts things on a superficial level. I can't say I've always been this way but apart of me never bought into the silly stories in the bible, they always seemed to reek of bronze age guessing.
0 Replies
 
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2015 09:02 am
@Joona,
I think we're doomed. Homo sapiens is a profoundly flawed version of human beings and as such doomed to extinction. Hopefully, whatever version comes next will do better. We need to engineer out the fight or flight response, the area of our brain where religion lives, and a host of other tweaks.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 04:27 pm
@GorDie,
GorDie wrote:
#3 Morals are real, not fictitious man made opinion statements.


edit: Umm...suuure
0 Replies
 
Dropship
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2015 05:26 pm
Joona said- Im saying that i think that it is our job here, feel the wars, hunger, hatered and pain.
Im just 15 years old boy

---------------------------------------------------------------

Yes the Earth is a TESTING GROUND-
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

And don't worry about being young..Smile
"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity" (1 Tim 4:12)


0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2015 05:53 pm
@GorDie,
Quote:
It is the Only "world" I could ever imagine, and justly God decreed in the Book of Revelations that it is the location of our afterlife. [before or after purgatory, hell, hallucination or greater+lesser splendor]. Also as a Muslim,

That is a belief of Islam I wasn't aware of. I don't see where you got that from Revelations but if you turn out to be right, I'm totally screwed. Spending as much as 100 years here (under current conditions) could be OK but if I faced an eternity of this existence I would be bored enough to choose death instead.

My reading of Revelations says that we spend a millennium here after Christ returns and his dead followers are awakened. We have that long (under very different conditions) to reach final understanding and make our final decision before the final judgement.
0 Replies
 
mikeymojo
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2015 02:34 am
@Joona,
Your friends are rationalists because they understand that God is a colossal screw up. The bible is a tale of God's incompetence, from Genesis to the old covenant to the new covenant to revelation. An all powerful God would never act as God does in scripture. This shouldn't surpise anyone considering that the bible was written and put together by...humans, who are known to be incompetent from time to time, which explains why suffering exists.

Lets compare:
The need to be noticed: God-check...humans-check
Wraith and punishment: God-check...humans-check
Destruction: God-check...humans-check
Love: God-check...humans-check
Complete control: God-check...humans-check
To have law: God-check...humans-check
To have favorites: God-check...humans-check
Regret: God-check...humans-check
Forgiveness: God-check...humans-check
Change of mind: God-check...humans-check
To screw up and try something different: God-check...humans-check
THE NEED OF A SAVIOR TO FIX THINGS: God-check..humans-check
I could go on and on and on...

Rational Conclusion: God did not create humans, humans created God IN OUR IMAGE. How do I rationalize this? We ALL empirically experience humans and the acts of humans every single day of our lives. The same cannot be said of God. Having a subjective experience is just that..a subjective experience. A real God would not resort to subjective experiences if God wanted to be taken seriously. A real God would be more intelligent than a human.
Dropship
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2015 04:22 pm
Mikeymojo said -"An all powerful God would never act as God does in scripture"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He's not some limp-wristed lefty social worker!
Ancient heathen tribes were disrupting the peace so of course he had to bust their asses! If you want a wimpy indecisive "god", go follow Tinkerbell the fairy..Wink

"Lord, pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name" (Psalm 79:6)
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fury.gif
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2015 05:17 pm
@mikeymojo,
Quote:


Lets compare:
The need to be noticed: God-check...humans-check
Wraith and punishment: God-check...humans-check
Destruction: God-check...humans-check
Love: God-check...humans-check
Complete control: God-check...humans-check
To have law: God-check...humans-check
To have favorites: God-check...humans-check
Regret: God-check...humans-check
Forgiveness: God-check...humans-check
Change of mind: God-check...humans-check
To screw up and try something different: God-check...humans-check
THE NEED OF A SAVIOR TO FIX THINGS: God-check..humans-check
I could go on and on and on...


Able to create the universe: God-Check....humans-Negative

The comparisons were bound to breakdown somewhere.
mikeymojo
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2015 06:36 pm
@Leadfoot,
Exactly what proof do you have that insists that God created the universe? A book?

Able to create a book: humans-check...God-negative
Go figure
mikeymojo
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2015 06:47 pm
@Dropship,
Dropship wrote:

Mikeymojo said -"An all powerful God would never act as God does in scripture"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He's not some limp-wristed lefty social worker!
Ancient heathen tribes were disrupting the peace so of course he had to bust their asses! If you want a wimpy indecisive "god", go follow Tinkerbell the fairy..Wink

"Lord, pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name" (Psalm


Funny that God didn't bust my ass or rain wrath down upon me when I posted that. Then again maybe He is limp wristed since He needs you to defend Him from little ole me. Sounds like all talk and no action.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 06:51 am
@mikeymojo,
Quote:
@Leadfoot,
Exactly what proof do you have that insists that God created the universe? A book?

Able to create a book: humans-check...God-negative
Go figure

Combination of the obvious and the findings of science.
If you find a simple piece of pottery or an arrow head, you don't need to be an archeologist to know that it was not an accident of natural forces that created it. There had to be some intelligence behind it. How much more obvious could it be that the same is true of life and the universe.

No book required.

And assuming for the moment that there is a God, why not a book? If he was able to do life, universe and everything, a book should be easy.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 07:50 am
@Leadfoot,
How about us not assuming anything for the moment. Instead, how about you providing credible evidence for your creator hypothesis? We have a lot more data about early humans and hominids than pottery and arrowheads. We need a smidgen more for your supernatural deity than Bronze Age stories. Old stories are evidence for the fact that people have been ignorant of the basics of the workings of the cosmos for a very long time and have been making up stories that express that ignorance for a very long time. If you want to support your creator hypothesis, give us something better than that. I could take any old myth and it would be as strong or stronger than your favorite one.
 

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