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Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

 
 
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2015 08:57 am
Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Job 2;3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

From what I have read in scriptures, God does not follow the advice that he gives in his WORD. The above shows him overcome by evil and replying with evil.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If we are to emulate God as scriptures say we should, should we too ignore his WORD the way he does?

At the end of days and in many biblical stories of the past, God is overcome by evil and responds with evil while telling us we should respond with good.

Which example should we follow; what God says or what God does?

I think that if God is saying, --- do as I say and not as I do, ---- that that is an immoral example that only a satanic demiurge would say. Yet it appears that that is what God is saying.

Should we follow God, --- or his advice and WORD?

They are not the same. One is good the other evil.

Regards
DL
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2015 09:34 am
@Greatest I am,
This oughtta be good.

I'm going to follow this thread...if only for its entertainment value.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2015 12:50 pm
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:
. . . From what I have read in scriptures,. . . .
So you are saying you didn't read enough. Satan states one of the central issues of his rebellion in verse 4: "Skin in behalf of skin. Everything a man has he will give for his soul (life)."

It's his allegation against all of us, that we will serve God only out of selfishness. Job passed that test put on him by Satan and was rewarded, not only in his past life, but in the future, when all of his children killed by the Sabeans will be brought back to life. (Job 14: 14,15)

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2015 12:50 pm
@Frank Apisa,
'Morning, Frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2015 01:30 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

'Morning, Frank.


Hey, Neo. Just about to snow again in NJ.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 07:21 pm
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:

Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Job 2;3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

From what I have read in scriptures, God does not follow the advice that he gives in his WORD. The above shows him overcome by evil and replying with evil.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If we are to emulate God as scriptures say we should, should we too ignore his WORD the way he does?

At the end of days and in many biblical stories of the past, God is overcome by evil and responds with evil while telling us we should respond with good.

Which example should we follow; what God says or what God does?

I think that if God is saying, --- do as I say and not as I do, ---- that that is an immoral example that only a satanic demiurge would say. Yet it appears that that is what God is saying.

Should we follow God, --- or his advice and WORD?

They are not the same. One is good the other evil.

Regards
DL



There is one convoluted aspect to this concept. Christians often like to site that satan has reign over the Earth. Well if that is the case then wouldn't the bible itself be effected by this? Isn't it possible that if Satan did have control over this existence then the bible itself could be a trick by Satan? Because for me when I look over the bible all I see is the condoning of violence against anyone who opposes the doctrine. If Satan is the true deceiver it would make sense that he would trick people into creating hatred and violence by pretending this scripture is the word of god. Yet some how christians will say the bible is secure from the influences of satan yet everything else is at his mercy. This seems inconsistent to me.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 07:53 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
. . . Christians often like to site that satan has reign over the Earth. Well if that is the case then wouldn't the bible itself be effected by this? Isn't it possible that if Satan did have control over this existence then the bible itself could be a trick by Satan? . .
Well, if the true God is, in fact, all powerful, he ceratinly would be able to preserve a message worthwhile to us. Consider God's initial commission to Adam and Eve. Had they not sinned, they would still be here and we would not have war and crime and sickness and death. The Bible contains an explanation, albeit one you will not find in mainstream christianity. Nor will it be taught by 'learned' theologians. But you will find it in the Bible.
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 10:04 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
. . . Christians often like to site that satan has reign over the Earth. Well if that is the case then wouldn't the bible itself be effected by this? Isn't it possible that if Satan did have control over this existence then the bible itself could be a trick by Satan? . .
Well, if the true God is, in fact, all powerful, he ceratinly would be able to preserve a message worthwhile to us. Consider God's initial commission to Adam and Eve. Had they not sinned, they would still be here and we would not have war and crime and sickness and death. The Bible contains an explanation, albeit one you will not find in mainstream christianity. Nor will it be taught by 'learned' theologians. But you will find it in the Bible.


So you are essentially saying that it would be impossible for a corrupt man to take the bible and edit it or rewrite it to put forth a message or idea that was not originally intended? If that is what you mean, then my question is do you actually believe the bible has never been altered?

Before you answer that, biblical historians have determined that there are no original manuscripts and many surviving texts have discrepancies where parts are either missing or "new" additions were made that older version do not have. How do you account for this if the divine hand has preserved the bible over time or corruption?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2015 12:05 am
@Krumple,
To be sure, there are many non canonical works. But one thing that has been learned from examination of the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, is there is only minor variations between copies of the same texts.

Similarly minor variations are found between surviving manuscripts of the Christian texts. So, if you were to compare the King James version with a newer translation, made from a larger library of documents, you would still find only minor differences.

Additionally, one can examine texts in original languages for greater understanding. For example, take the Hebrew word nephesh, translated 'soul'. It is quite obvious from examining the texts that we do not possess souls we are souls. And when we die, there is no longer any life.

The clergy do not benefit from this understanding, however. No indulgences, no expensive funeral services, etc.
John Wick
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2015 07:41 am
Have faith on GOD. He will guide your way.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2015 11:55 am
@John Wick,
Welcome to the forum, John.
Would you care to flesh out your assertion?
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2015 05:55 pm
@neologist,
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2015 02:00 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
. . . From what I have read in scriptures,. . . .
So you are saying you didn't read enough. Satan states one of the central issues of his rebellion in verse 4: "Skin in behalf of skin. Everything a man has he will give for his soul (life)."

It's his allegation against all of us, that we will serve God only out of selfishness. Job passed that test put on him by Satan and was rewarded, not only in his past life, but in the future, when all of his children killed by the Sabeans will be brought back to life. (Job 14: 14,15)




God already knew Job would pass the test so he allowed murder without cause as he was moved to do by Satan and you think God won when it was Satan who won.

Strange that you do not even blink at God having children murdered.

I take it you have no objection to God torturing King David's child either. Right?

Torture of children is moral to you is it?

Regards
DL.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2015 02:06 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Job 2;3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

From what I have read in scriptures, God does not follow the advice that he gives in his WORD. The above shows him overcome by evil and replying with evil.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If we are to emulate God as scriptures say we should, should we too ignore his WORD the way he does?

At the end of days and in many biblical stories of the past, God is overcome by evil and responds with evil while telling us we should respond with good.

Which example should we follow; what God says or what God does?

I think that if God is saying, --- do as I say and not as I do, ---- that that is an immoral example that only a satanic demiurge would say. Yet it appears that that is what God is saying.

Should we follow God, --- or his advice and WORD?

They are not the same. One is good the other evil.

Regards
DL



There is one convoluted aspect to this concept. Christians often like to site that satan has reign over the Earth. Well if that is the case then wouldn't the bible itself be effected by this? Isn't it possible that if Satan did have control over this existence then the bible itself could be a trick by Satan? Because for me when I look over the bible all I see is the condoning of violence against anyone who opposes the doctrine. If Satan is the true deceiver it would make sense that he would trick people into creating hatred and violence by pretending this scripture is the word of god. Yet some how christians will say the bible is secure from the influences of satan yet everything else is at his mercy. This seems inconsistent to me.


That is because your are seeing without faith blinders on.

Christians do not see 20/20 through their faith blinders. They just think they do.

As you say, likely due to Satan. If he were real that is.

I have asked Christians why Satan is our ruler thanks to God who is supposed to have sentenced him, her to Vatican art, to hell?

I ask them if justice delayed is justice denied and I guess they don't know as they do not answer.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2015 02:10 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
. . . Christians often like to site that satan has reign over the Earth. Well if that is the case then wouldn't the bible itself be effected by this? Isn't it possible that if Satan did have control over this existence then the bible itself could be a trick by Satan? . .
Well, if the true God is, in fact, all powerful, he ceratinly would be able to preserve a message worthwhile to us. Consider God's initial commission to Adam and Eve. Had they not sinned, they would still be here and we would not have war and crime and sickness and death. The Bible contains an explanation, albeit one you will not find in mainstream christianity. Nor will it be taught by 'learned' theologians. But you will find it in the Bible.


A logical view but you have God using his own power against himself.

You have him protecting the message while he is also giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world?

Seems God just can't make up his mind about what he wants us to believe.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2015 02:13 pm
@John Wick,
John Wick wrote:

Have faith on GOD. He will guide your way.


So it is his example we should follow and not his WORD.

His Word show an example of his torturing King David's baby for six days before finally killing it because of his anger with David.

Should that be our standard of justice as well?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2015 03:54 pm
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:
A logical view but you have God using his own power against himself.

You have him protecting the message while he is also giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world?
So you're saying you can't understand why God gave control of this world to Satan?

Not surprising. I doubt if a single clergyman of christendom has the answer.

But, there is an answer. A careful reading of Genesis ch 3 and Job, ch 2 might help.

I'll come back if you need help.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2015 10:37 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
A logical view but you have God using his own power against himself.

You have him protecting the message while he is also giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world?
So you're saying you can't understand why God gave control of this world to Satan?

Not surprising. I doubt if a single clergyman of christendom has the answer.

But, there is an answer. A careful reading of Genesis ch 3 and Job, ch 2 might help.

I'll come back if you need help.


Let me stop you there for a moment. Doesn't it also state that god is the bringer of both what is good and what is evil? This is how I discredit the hippy christians who just want to claim god is love. You can't be love if you are also the bringer of what is evil. Those two cancel each other out.

Essentially what the modern hippy christians are attempting to do is to over rule the biblical version which is violent and vengeful. Willing to destroy at the drop of a hat. Modern people have calmed down a bit and now see this behavior as psychotic and they can't reconcile their docile attitude with this wrathful one, therefore god would have to be more loving than they currently are. But this conflicts with the biblical accounts. They contradict. Either the bible is all wrong, or they are right. But both can't be right.

This is an example of a religion attempting to change to suit the mindsets of the people. Why not just admit that the ancient christian view of god is just silly and outdated. Why not realize your own interpretation of that same god is just as silly and outdated?

You can't be a deity built upon love if you also have created a way in which to torture/punish/avoid those who you don't favor for eternity. It is NOT consistent with being the core of what love is. To truly be a god of love there wouldn't be any rejection or judgment. You would accept all equally regardless of their behavior or actions. Anything less than that is just nonsensical.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:33 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
A logical view but you have God using his own power against himself.

You have him protecting the message while he is also giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world?
So you're saying you can't understand why God gave control of this world to Satan?

Not surprising. I doubt if a single clergyman of christendom has the answer.

But, there is an answer. A careful reading of Genesis ch 3 and Job, ch 2 might help.

I'll come back if you need help.


I read Job and note that even God complains that Satan moved him to destroy without cause so it seems that on earthly maters, Satan is God's boss and can deceive him just as he can everyone else.

Thanks for the offer of help but you might seek some before trying to offer it.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:36 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple

You have it about right and our friend looks like he agrees as he is not arguing with you. That, or like most Christians, does not know how to make his God look good to those who can think.

Regards
DL
 

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