cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 11:24 am
@RexRed,
That's been proven even in the US where many states disallowed marriage and equal rights for LGBT couples. Those ideas stem from the christian religion.

Like my sister used to say, she loves the homosexual people, but not their sin.

Huh? Why don't they realize that all they want is to love someone freely and equally? What right do they have to take away their equal rights against people they don't even know?

I often wonder.

0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 02:31 pm
@RexRed,
For the record, I don't advocate legislation of people's private lives.
My personal understanding of LBGT issues is irrelevant. The Bible prohibition is clear. So, either the Bible is God's word or it is not. You decide.

The point I was making has to do with principled love as compared to erotic love. I love my neighbors. I have no inclination to have sex with them
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 02:48 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

For the record, I don't advocate legislation of people's private lives.
My personal understanding of LBGT issues is irrelevant. The Bible prohibition is clear. So, either the Bible is God's word or it is not. You decide.

The point I was making has to do with principled love as compared to erotic love. I love my neighbors. I have no inclination to have sex with them


The Bible prohibition is most assuredly clear:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” Leviticus 20-13

Can't get much "clearer" than that!

Right?

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 03:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Howdy, Frank
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 04:18 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Howdy, Frank


Hi, Neo. Hope you didn't mind me agreeing so enthusiastically with your contention about the clarity of the Bible on the issue of homosexuality.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 04:24 pm
Quote:
Usmankhalid said: Just read the Quran. Then post any comment about Quran.

You must have missed a couple of questions I put to you earlier mate, I asked why the Quran tells muslims not to be friends with christians, and I asked if Allah and God are the same person?
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 04:29 pm
Quote:
Cicerone said: On religion, one just needs to see that humans are prone to create gods.

That's only true of nonchristian religions mate, but they're only mickey mouse religions and shouldn't be taken seriously because they don't have Jesus the Son of God in them.
Nobody "invented" him, he came to us as solid flesh and blood.
A religion without Jesus in it is like a boxed set of rock n' roll CD's without Elvis in it, a complete crock..Smile
Right Elv?

"Uh-huh"..
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/elvis1.jpg

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 04:35 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Is that why the bible is the only support for this "Jesus" guy? With all the miracles he performed, why isn't there other documents about them when thousands were the beneficiaries of those loaves and fishes?

The bible claims this planet is only 6000 years old. Science says different.
From Wiki.
Quote:
The oldest such minerals analyzed to date – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – are at least 4.404 billion years old.[5][6][7] Comparing the mass and luminosity of the Sun to those of other stars, it appears that the solar system cannot be much older than those rocks. Calcium-aluminium-rich inclusions – the oldest known solid constituents within meteorites that are formed within the solar system – are 4.567 billion years old,[8][9] giving an age for the solar system and an upper limit for the age of Earth.


If god appeared on this planet only 2000 years ago, why did he wait so long? Homo Sapiens have been on this planet over 200,000 years. Were humans sinless from the beginning of our species? How do you explain this shortcoming in your god?

Again from Wiki.
Quote:
Anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 195,000 years ago, and studies of molecular biology give evidence that the approximate time of divergence from the common ancestor of all modern human populations was 200,000 years ago


Why would god turn any woman into a pile of salt?

Did you study philosophy? How about science? What did you learn about logic?
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 07:44 pm
Quote:
Cicerone said: With all the miracles he performed, why isn't there other documents about them when thousands were the beneficiaries of those loaves and fishes?

27 books were written about Jesus, then bound together to form the New Testament, how many more do you want?

Quote:
Cicerone said: The bible claims this planet is only 6000 years old. Science says different.

Science says time is stretchy and elastic (Einstein proved it), but the Bible said so first, so "human time" is meaningless compared to "God's time"-
"With God a thousand years are as one day" (2 Pet 3:8 )


Quote:
Cicerone said: If god appeared on this planet only 2000 years ago, why did he wait so long? Homo Sapiens have been on this planet over 200,000 years. Were humans sinless from the beginning of our species?

Ancient tribes would have eaten Jesus so God had to help Israel get well-established with a good well-ordered society so he could send Jesus there in relative safety. It wasn't a perfect place but was better than nothing, and at least Jesus managed to gig for 3 years before they killed him.

Quote:
Cicerone said: Why would god turn any woman into a pile of salt?

God said to Lot- "I'm going to trash Sodom/Gomorrah so take your wife and family and escape, but don't look back".
But Lot's wife did look back and got zapped by the fallout or whatever, she asked for it..Wink

LOT- "Get back down here!"
WIFE- "Don't tell me what to do!"

Boom....
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/lots-wife_zps9d2d6f57.jpg~original
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 07:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Hi, Neo. Hope you didn't mind me agreeing so enthusiastically with your contention about the clarity of the Bible on the issue of homosexuality.
Certainly not, Frank. Now, of course, the consequence (not punishment, mind you) of homosexual behavior (not inclination, mind you) is spiritual death.

Just took my 3 musketeers to see Spiderman (yawn). They loved it. Neutral
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 08:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
The bible claims this planet is only 6000 years old. Science says different.
Why do you keep claiming this as if you were an authority on what the Bible says?

It has often been pointed out to you that the creative days were not solar days. Aside from the fact that biblical day (Hebrew, yom) is often used to represent an indefinite period of time, Genesis 2:4 lumps all the first 6 days into 1. Additionally, you will find no text identifying the end of the seventh day. Counting the years identified in the bible gives us approximately 6000 years for the duration of just one day, the 7th, until now. Also, the earth was in existence long before the first creative day was recorded. The earth could be kajillions of years old without any contradiction to Genesis chapter 1.

You can believe or not believe. But please don't misrepresent.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 08:59 pm
@neologist,
You wrote,
Quote:
It has often been pointed out to you that the creative days were not solar days.
A night and day is one day. You may interpret that in as many ways as you wish, but common sense based on the bible's own wordings says god created this planet in six days and rested on the seventh.

Imagination is a good skill, but it's not needed when the communication is clear from its own wording.

I'm not misrepresenting anything.

Quote:
Day 1 - God created light and separated the light from the darkness, calling light "day" and darkness "night."
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 10:23 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
The story of Lot's wife I heard told this way. (Not that I believe in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.) Be nice to your neighbors while blame everything wrong with the world on gay people. (cynical)

You know how eastern customs have a woman walking ten paces behind a man? Well I was taught that each time Lot looked back at his wife, her and her entourage were further away. Ten paces became eleven and so on. The salt signifying her lack of commitment to Lot's endeavor.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 11:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The major clue you ignore is in Genesis 2:4.

I can understand why one would not wish to believe the Bible. But when you misstate what the Bible says,I begin to wonder about your sincerity.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 11:17 pm
@neologist,
Neo I am not trying to degrade your character.

I am just noting that religion had degraded the character of many of its constituents.

The more avid the follower the more radicalized their views on the LGBT lifestyle.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQu7tYgfJaqvONe4sYoOAAEcqNbhmXPj_myfURa2CvWwojttcpR

Is this an anomaly of religion or its core?

If hateful views towards LGBT people are the core of religion then somewhere along the line religion itself had deviated from what is natural and loving (just the opposite of what many claim).

Homosexuality is a result of natural predispositions that are born into individuals much like our immune system and DNA.

For a religion to push two young homosexuals into celibacy because it cannot stand their private lifestyle is simply cruel and contrary to the message of what love and liberty mean.

I say if a city was very "gay" like Sodom and Gomorrah it might show that gays are actually a good influence on cultures, even back in antiquities. That gay culture has often dominated urban areas and politically, anti-gay, indignant religious hate is usually behind any kind of "fire and wrath". Not God...

This gay culture has facilitated liberty to flourish in places like southern Spain, Rome and western civilizations. Perhaps homosexuality is even responsible for the Renaissance through secret societies and the age of reason.

What is the main thing the gays have going for them?

The answer is kind of ironic. It is "persecution".

It is even more ironic that religion had used this persecution to try and impose repressive life behaviors that they call "standards"..

So they have taken the repression of gays and created a martyr err, who "condemns sin in the flesh".

This is what I refer to as a "knight move". It is a way to change the color you stand on to try and create an illusion of holiness. Gays are not making a political movement they are simply being who they are. It is religion that had to create political martyrs to facilitate its bigoted and chauvinistic views.

It is like how do you solve persecution of gays? By creating a martyr that seemingly opposes homosexuality? How is this supposed to help reduce persecution?

Is that going to convince people to not act out on their homophobia?

It seems unlikely.

It is more likely that anti gay clerics wrote the Bible out of a pure hatred for Rome's liberty and attempt at equality and freedom through acceptance of homosexuals.

Religion has taken "gay persecution" (something the gay community has suffered from for what is inexplicable) and wove a story around it to turn that persecution even harder upon gays.

Religion has had no positive influence on martyrdom. Quite the contrary religion has become martyrdom's greatest supporter.

Religion had concealed itself within homophobia as a victim! ...and acted out upon hateful prejudices.

It comes down to weight. Does loving Jesus mean I have to stop loving non believers? Are people who do not attend my church going to hell?

Does loving Jesus mean I need to stop caring about the poor?

Does loving Jesus mean that LGBT people are now sinners and should be treated with hate and persecution?

Does loving Jesus mean we need to be constantly at war over religion?

This is the persecuting Jesus, quite a knight move and it has shifted the logic of many "Christians" in a way that is far from holy.

How did we shift from a persecuted Jesus to a persecuting Jesus?

Therein is the logic.

He who is persecuted is guilty right?

He who is not guilty is persecuted.

It should be noted that one knight move in this religious logic and the innocent LGBT people become the persecuted...

Religion is guilty of persecution. LGBT people are guilty of nothing.

Get the logic right.

Where is true enlightenment?

Is it evolving or found while trying to recapture some bygone age of innocence?

I think enlightenment it is taking the good parts of life and leaving religion its own godless fate.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 11:40 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

The major clue you ignore is in Genesis 2:4.

I can understand why one would not wish to believe the Bible. But when you misstate what the Bible says,I begin to wonder about your sincerity.


Even when one has stated accurately what the Bible says it is still unbelievable and inoperable flawed.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2014 01:49 am
Quote:
RexRed said:@RF- The story of Lot's wife I heard told this way. (Not that I believe in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.) Be nice to your neighbors while blame everything wrong with the world on gay people... (cynical)

There are two sorts of gays, the nice sort and the nasty sort.
The Sodom/Gomorrah gays were the nasty sort, they were asking for trouble and they got it -
"..all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.
They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have them." (Genesis 19:4)
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2014 02:49 am
SPIRIT SCIENCE 23 ~ THE SACRED GEOMETRY MOVIE
http://thespiritscience.net/2014/04/14/spirit-science-23-the-sacred-geometry-movie/
This is a long movie but worth watching Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2014 03:11 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Hi, Neo. Hope you didn't mind me agreeing so enthusiastically with your contention about the clarity of the Bible on the issue of homosexuality.
Certainly not, Frank. Now, of course, the consequence (not punishment, mind you) of homosexual behavior (not inclination, mind you) is spiritual death.




So you think that is what the writers had in mind when they wrote that passage, huh?

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” Leviticus 20-13

I wonder if they were worried people would misinterpret the passage to mean stoning to death...before the passage was re-interpreted?



Quote:
Just took my 3 musketeers to see Spiderman (yawn). They loved it. Neutral


I have never even seen the earlier ones, Neo. My guess is that my yawn would be even wider and more long lasting than yours.

Glad they liked it, though...and I am sure that is what the producers had in mind.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2014 09:30 am
@Frank Apisa,
Well, y'know Frank, it all comes back to the difference between the old and new covenants. The old law was meticulous and severe for a reason.

You and I cannot seem to agree on the manner or effect of Jesus having fulfilled it.

Funny thing about all these hero movies. There was a line yesterday about the need people have for hope that things will be better. Sort of a 'thy kngdom come' plea. . . .
 

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