spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Dec, 2013 06:33 am
@RexRed,
Quote:
I don't object to religious history taught in classrooms, especially the history of religious barbarity and beheading in the name of fairy-tale deities. But religion in science class? Out of the question...


But that is not the question Rex. The question is science untrammeled in the educational process.

I very much doubt you could take it.

There has been a fair amount of scientific barbarity and in our own times.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Dec, 2013 03:49 pm
@spendius,
It is most likely that scientific barbarity stems from some form of religious barbarity. Hitler's science comes to mind. YEt today Germany is nearly all solar powered but still struggles with "skinhead racism".

Humans evolved from barbarity to religious barbarity to science.

Some humans still maintain the memories of these past barbarities while some were, even in the earlier of barbarities, able to escape the norm and rise above it towards a more civilized existence.

We see ancient cultures who were warlike, cannibals and highly superstitious. While at the same times other cultures were more peaceful less superstitious and industrious. These characteristics are carried on though DNA memory to the present day...

This is not to say one culture is bad and others are better but to say even within cultures some are favored and avoid barbarity while some not.

This is why an atheist can be barbaric not because of atheism but because of past barbarity retained from religion or even earlier that is a kick back through DNA memory.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Dec, 2013 05:51 pm
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1482757_10152055267970155_95424979_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Dec, 2013 10:29 pm
All we need is a little evidence that there is a god. Already got plenty of evidence that science works.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 05:37 am
@FBM,
The universe is evidence of something, I am not sure it is God and it certainly does not justify religion but it does seem to echo the eternal...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 07:40 am
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:

The universe is evidence of something, I am not sure it is God and it certainly does not justify religion but it does seem to echo the eternal...


The universe definitely IS evidence of something...but like you, Rex, I am not sure it is a god.

That was very nicely expressed...and I just wanted to sign on to it.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 12:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The universe definitely IS evidence of something...but like you, Rex, I am not sure it is a god
Well put Frank. Definitely there's something abstruse or abstract that we just don't or can't presently understand, helping to account for the existence of anything at all and for the way it turned out

At risk of repetition, I think it will be demonstrated that the problem of Her existence v non- is one of semantics, and so the devout will be accorded the choice to believe in Her or not
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 05:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Very nicely expressed also Frank. Smile

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 05:10 pm
@RexRed,
Based on what humans know about evolution up to this point, I credit our universe to evolution. Human written language wasn't even available 6,000 years ago. That's not that long ago based on the age of this planet.

From Wiki.
Quote:
Homo sapiens originated in Africa, where it reached anatomical modernity about 200,000 years ago and began to exhibit full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.[7] Homo sapiens proceeded to colonize the continents, arriving in Eurasia 125,000–60,000 years ago,[8][9] Australia around 40,000 years ago, the Americas around 15,000 years ago, and remote islands such as Hawaii, Easter Island, Madagascar, and New Zealand between the years AD 300 and 1280.[10][11]


Also.
Quote:
Inventions of writing
Sumer, an ancient civilization of southern Mesopotamia, is believed to be the place where written language was first invented around 3200 BCE
Writing numbers for the purpose of record keeping began long before the writing of language. See History of writing ancient numbers for how the writing of numbers began.
It is generally agreed that true writing of language (not only numbers) was invented independently in at least two places: Mesopotamia (specifically, ancient Sumer) around 3200 BCE and Mesoamerica around 600 BCE. Several Mesoamerican scripts are known, the oldest being from the Olmec or Zapotec of Mexico.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 05:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The universe and humans are two different "evolutions".

One is a biological evolution and the other a physical evolution.

The codes for DNA are at least millions if not billions of years old, it long predates human language but in itself is a language of its own.

The fact that languages existed before humanity should give one pause to think... (In the beginning was the word)

These codes, words and languages of DNA are not the only languages. Proteins and atomic particles also have their own ordered way of interaction.

Something ordered this universe. Maybe it was simple geometry, the way a sphere responds as a mass. Something gave weight to matter and its gravitational properties.

Thus "scientifically" the characters, words and languages of the physical world have existed for eons.

It seems logical that all things have evolved from the imperceptibly small to the more complex forms they exhibit today.

To start off "in the beginning" with a complex being creates more questions than answers. Yet the big bang is likely no less complex a concept than God...

A "creator" could have evolved and then created the universe.

Something created, formed, made (pick your own word) the universe that is for certain.

Stars form, life is made, and the human spirit is created out of free will...

If we take the words and language of "made, formed and created" out of the equation, nothing would exist...

A dislike for religion does not and should not negate the miraculous of our existence.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 06:38 pm
@RexRed,
Quote:
Something created, formed, made (pick your own word) the universe that is for certain.
I'd disagree Rex. Created: Why couldn't She always have existed in one form or another

Formed: Unnecessary, evolution is pretty much automatic

Made: I'd guess it's likely She doesn't need to be made, that it will eventually be proposed that Her antithesis, nothingness, simply entails a contradiction or paradox. In other words, She simply has to be


Quote:
It seems logical that all things have evolved from the imperceptibly small to the more complex forms they exhibit today.
Yes, sort of. I'd suppose a tiny spec (zero radius?) of uniform composition and huge (infinite?) mass explodes with the Big Bang, then everything (It, ?She) evolves into what we have today

Quote:
The universe and humans are two different "evolutions". One is a biological evolution and the other a physical evolution.
Both part of a singular phenom, no fundamental distinction
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 06:51 pm
@RexRed,
You,
Quote:
The universe and humans are two different "evolutions".


I never claimed otherwise. You're talking about a different language; I talked about human written language.

Your straw man arguments are meaningless.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 11:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Since when is the evolution of the physical world a straw man or meaningless?

You see straw where there is science, anything to appease your hatred of the Christian God...

It seems you are too biased to even understand science...

The question of what/who put the big bang there is a logical question not a straw man.

And I might remark, the Asians have MANY "Gods" I don't see you railing on the evils of that system an how FOOLISH it is...

Before you go pointing at the Christian God you might look also at the three fingers pointing back at yourself.

http://www.mythome.org/asiang.html Are there enough Gods here?

How many wars were fought over these Gods?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 12:09 am
It is the height of arrogance to think one language is superior to another or that animals that have occupied this is planet much longer than humans don't have their own way of communicating.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2007/09/11/Physicists-get-two-atoms-to-communicate/UPI-25671189519077/

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/cellular-microscopic/bacteria-communication.htm

CI, you can go argue this with the biologists and physicists it seems you think you are so much smarter than they are. See who is the one with the straw man...

Human language is a result of being formed in a world where communication and words long preexisted humans.

Just as our DNA retains memories of our parents, grand parents and so on. It is pure arrogance to think humans are the only ones who communicate words, love and what we call "higher virtues".

And when you start targeting and criticizing Christian religion I will remind you of the multitude of a Asian gods just so you don't forget...

And also you might be surprised to know that Jesus spoke in what are called "Orientalisms"...

I have owned this book and its companion for over 30 years...

http://www.amazon.com/ORIENTALISMS-OF-THE-BIBLE-Volume/dp/0910068550

(It was a bishop from India who wrote this book)
He realized the western mind could not understand many things in the bible because it was written with a view towards the "orient" (what they called it back then)...

The Asian Gods are just as if not even MORE barbaric, sexist, homophobic, chauvinistic, brutal and warlike as their Christian counterparts, but out of your brief but numerous 88 thousand A2H posts you are strangely silent about them...

Call this a straw man but I call it bias...

We have millions of Asians murdering shark to the brink of extinction and eating "only" their fins because they think it will bring them prosperity...

Got any remarks about how dumb that is?

Is that any more ignorant and stupid than believing in the blessed virgin?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 02:37 am
The sign language of a snowflake
http://www.today.com/holidayguide/photographer-captures-snowflakes-stunning-detail-2D11789475
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 04:24 am
Richard Dawkins - Appetite for Wonder
http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/10/16/richard-dawkins-appetite-for-wonder
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 04:28 am
Nature is like book that every time you read it you see a different perspective... RR
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 08:53 am
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:

The universe is evidence of something, I am not sure it is God and it certainly does not justify religion but it does seem to echo the eternal...


As far as I can tell, the universe is evidence of a universe. If I were to parse it more closely, I might say that the experience of a universe is evidence for the experience of a universe, which may be nothing more than a mental model limited by the sensory capacities of H. sapiens sapiens. But that's probably just being pedantic. Wouldn't want to go there. The real comfort zone is where you admit that you really don't know for sure. At least, that's my experience to date. Wink
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:22 am
Consider the human body is made of cells and DNA and they all contribute to an experience that makes the language, knowledge and wisdom of the human mind.

The planet Earth is connected by the internet and humans are the cells and the units that contribute the language, knowledge and wisdom of the Earth...

What are we building in the internet as a hive of human connectivity grows and facilitates the earth with our own inherited wisdom derived from our cells...

The internet is the earth's own Cambrian explosion, an age of mechanism and enlightenment as humans become the embodiment of the Earth's mind..
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 11:39 am
@RexRed,
I never claimed to be smarter than anyone. That you can't accept that "human written language" is only 6,000 years old" is not my problem; that's a FACT based on historians.

What you claim about scientists say about human written language isn't really what they are talking about. They're talking about the interaction of atoms. That's called physics, not human history.

No need for me to argue with them; it's you who are interpreting something entirely different to the topic of human evolution.
 

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