Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 07:08 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

I'd like to have a crack at answering Cicero's article quotes, my answers are in pretty red ink..
Cicero said re bible "contradictions": -

Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically." In other words, what is written is not what is meant.."
Jesus said- "You hardly believe me when I tell you earthly things,so how would you believe me if I told you heavenly things?" (John 3:12) so he tried to get his message across in 32 easy-to-understand metaphorical parables. Same with the Eden story, that's pure metaphor and is easy to understand.


Yeah...it is.

Apparently the guy who made it up was trying to teach that the god the ancient Hebrews dreamed up was not particularly interested in being fair or reasonable. The god was going to be arbitrary and ruthless.

The story might as well have had the god binding the couple to a tree after ordering them to fetch a pail of water...and then severely punishing them and all the rest of humanity because they didn't get the water.

It is a joke of a story...and has meaning only to those who are willingly blind.





Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 07:24 pm
As every sunday school child knows, Eden was a metaphor for a perfect unspoilt earth, the snake was a metaphor for Satan, and Adam and Eve's disobedience in listening to Satan instead of to God was a metaphor for how universal peace and harmony goes up the spout by not listening to God..Smile
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 07:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Only a confused mind can dream up such bull shyt! Do as I say, even though it may not be too clear, because if you fail, you'll die forever!

You may use metaphor, imagination or personal translation of what I tell you, because I'm not very good in language arts. I have purposely included contradictions, omissions, and errors to see how smart you are! But, if you fail, I'll burn you in hell.

Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 07:59 pm
Relax amigo, as long as we understand the things that really matter, the rest of the bible is just interesting padding that we shouldn't get sidetracked with..Smile
Paul spelt it out-"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
and that simplicity is easy to understand-
Jesus said-"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 08:46 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Context is a good weapon for shooting down fundies, it simply means looking at a bunch of inter-related verses rather than just concentrate on one verse.
For example Jesus said "buy swords", but by looking at the context in which he said it, we can see he didn't mean it literally and was only joking. Nowadays we'd say something like "Rough times are coming, we'd all better go out and buy machine guns, ha ha
You must be joking. If Jesus meant for the disciples to arm for combat, he would not have healed the slave's ear and told Peter to sheathe his sword. His intention at that time was to make it clear he intended to be taken into custody without bloodshed, in spite of having means. That's why he told Peter 2 swords were enough.
Context, Romeo. Context.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 08:51 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Relax amigo, as long as we understand the things that really matter, the rest of the bible is just interesting padding that we shouldn't get sidetracked with..Smile
This is one of your fundamental mistakes. You don't understsand the "rest of the bible", so you discount it.

Are you in any way related to Homer Simpson?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 08:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
But, if you fail, I'll burn you in hell.
You don't believe in hell, do you CI?
In that, you are ahead of Romeo.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:04 pm
@neologist,
How can I believe in hell when I don't believe in anything the bible claims?
Heaven is a man-made idea of an afterlife that doesn't exist.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:06 pm
Perhaps I never explained it clearly enough mate, let me try again-
Here's the passage from Luke ch 22-
"He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me.
The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied"


Fundy cultists seize on Jesus's words- "if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" to mean they should arm themselves like Rambo.
But in context we can see that he meant no such thing.
For a start there were 12 disciples there but he said the 2 swords they already had were enough.
Secondly,when Peter later hacked off the high priest's flunky's ear with his sword, Jesus told him off.
In context therefore, we see that when Jesus said "buy a sword", he never meant it at all but was just making an ironic joky comment..Smile
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:15 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
No joke, Romeo. Their having swords and not using them was in the same context of Jesus having at his disposal a legion of angels and not using them.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
How can I believe in hell when I don't believe in anything the bible claims?
Heaven is a man-made idea of an afterlife that doesn't exist.
You have been told by others that the Bible says this and the Bible says that. You are right in not believing the BS. You are in error for not seeking out for yourself what the Bible really says.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:34 pm
Quote:
Neologist said: You don't believe in hell, do you CI?
In that, you are ahead of Romeo

But mate, any sunday school kid can tell you you'll go to heaven if you're good, and to the naughty step (hell) if you're bad..Smile
Jesus said exactly the same thing on numerous occasions, notably-
"In my fathers house are many mansions, I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you, then I'll come back to take you there with me" (John 14:2-6)

But the rest go somewhere else-
"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46


PS-about our earlier discussion on swords, i haven't got one but this is my survival knife for camping, you said it's no good, so i'm beginning to think you like argument just for arguments sake..Wink
I've been hiking/camping and buying related stuff for 50 years, what are your qualifications?

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/CMSF/knif.gif
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:48 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
As I have said many times: You don't understand the Bible, so you discount it instead of reconciling its parts.
When I show you Isaiah 45:18 and Psalm 37:11, you equivocate. I explain to you the responsibility of those who go to Heaven (Revelation 5:10), and you want nothing to do with it.

A good thing, actually; you are unfit for the service.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 09:52 pm
@neologist,
It says what "you" want it to say. Mr. Green All interpretations are welcome.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 10:03 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo wrote:
PS-about our earlier discussion on swords, i haven't got one but this is my survival knife for camping, you said it's no good, so i'm beginning to think you like argument just for arguments sake..Wink
I've been hiking/camping and buying related stuff for 50 years, what are your qualifications?
Other than my present sideline of selling survival equipment, I organized scout troops on the district level as a volunteer for several years - wood badge, order of the arrow, etc. I tie a mean knot. Here's a key fob:
[img][/img]
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 10:25 pm
@neologist,
I like your invisible visuals, neo. Mr. Green
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2013 11:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'd tell you it was invisible cord, except I just couldn't make my tablet cooperate
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Nov, 2013 12:06 am
Quote:
Neologist said: @RF- As I have said many times: You don't understand the Bible..When I show you Isaiah 45:18 and Psalm 37:11, you equivocate. I explain to you the responsibility of those who go to Heaven (Revelation 5:10), and you want nothing to do with it.

I quote Jesus to back myself up, but you quote Isaiah, Psalms and Revelation. Two questions for you-
1- Who saves, Jesus or Isaiah/Psalms/Revelation?

2- Was Jesus telling fibs when he said-
"In my fathers house are many mansions, I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you, then I'll come back to take you there to be with me" (John 14:2-6)
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Nov, 2013 01:55 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
2- Was Jesus telling fibs when he said-
"In my fathers house are many mansions, I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you, then I'll come back to take you there to be with me" (John 14:2-6)
Where do you think some of those mansions might be?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Nov, 2013 01:59 am
@neologist,
Finally:
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/neologist/XFob1.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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