Quote:RexRed shouted: I DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS
What mate, you don't believe he existed, or you don't believe in the things he said?
@RexRed,
Care to provide some references, Rex?
@Romeo Fabulini,
Rex wrote:I DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS
Romeo Fabulini wrote:What mate, you don't believe he existed, or you don't believe in the things he said?
Rex doesn't like the idea that the Bible contains rules
The "rules" seem okay to me-
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)
@neologist,
The bible is fiction; it's rules are comical at best. Human nature is such that the "rules of the bible" is an oxymoron.
The only rules that matter are the laws of the country in which one lives.
Can anybody PROVE the bible is fiction?..
For centuries atheists used to say "Nazareth never existed in Jesus's time", but recent digs have discovered its 2000-yr-old ruins, who do atheists think lived there, Mary Poppins?
@Romeo Fabulini,
If in 2 or 10 thousand years the Pump Room in Bath is excavated I hardly think it will prove that Northanger Abbey wasn't fiction. Other sorts of considerations are required to do that.
It's a bit far fetched to imagine Jesus not using the power to raise the dead to fleece the rich and distribute the proceeds to the deserving. Although I will admit that the entrepreneurial spirit might not be instinctive.
One might have thought Pontius Pilate would have taken him to Rome and cleaned up. With loaves and fishes materialising before his very eyes he would be Emperor pretty quick I should have thought.
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote: . . . Human nature is such that the "rules of the bible" is an oxymoron. . . .
Correction. Human nature is such that the rules of the Bible are necessary.
@neologist,
What does "necessary" mean? I find that civil laws are "necessary." The bible is full of contradictions, so where does one being and end?
A list of biblical contradictions.
Quote:Introduction to Contradictions
The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ's father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.
Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically." In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD--which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want...
2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says "there was a" and another says "there was b," so they decide there was "a" AND "b"--which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b." But it doesn't say there was "a+b+little green martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e., only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses.
3. "It has to be understood in context." I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set which is supposed to be taken as THE TRUTH when, if you add more to it, it suddenly becomes "out of context." How many of you have gotten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown at you?
4. "There was just a copying/writing error." This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said. And that's right--I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the Bible itself is wrong.
5. "That is a miracle." Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.
6. "God works in mysterious ways." A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the Bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.
@cicerone imposter,
CI, we've been friends for a long time. Please don't dump your cut and paste straw man drivel on me. All that BS; give me your stuff.
Quote:Cicerone said: The bible is full of contradictions
Wait a minute! In one breath you atheists say the Bible has been edited and tidied up over the centuries to make it look good, then in their next breath they say it's still full of contradictions.
Wish they'd make up their minds and say whether it's been prettied up or hasn't it?..
@Romeo Fabulini,
I hope your propensity, Romeo, to avoid problematic issues is not a possible cause of anxiety for you because you can be confidently assured that it is perfectly normal on A2K just as it is in all aspiring suburban lower-middle-class milieu.
@Romeo Fabulini,
Ladling it out to ci. is like whacking a daddy long-legs in the conservatory window with a rolled up copy of Cosmopolitan.
We holy men don't do "whacking a daddy long-legs in the conservatory window with a rolled up copy of Cosmopolitan"
@Romeo Fabulini,
I didn't say you did. I said that ladling it out to ci. is like whacking a daddy long-legs in the conservatory window with a rolled up copy of Cosmopolitan.
I'd like to have a crack at answering Cicero's article quotes, my answers are in pretty red ink..
Cicero said re bible "contradictions": -
Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically." In other words, what is written is not what is meant.."
Jesus said- "You hardly believe me when I tell you earthly things,so how would you believe me if I told you heavenly things?" (John 3:12) so he tried to get his message across in 32 easy-to-understand metaphorical parables. Same with the Eden story, that's pure metaphor and is easy to understand.
2. "...the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation...I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses"
Yes, oddball cultists weave together assorted verses into tangled furballs which they then puke up, but they can't get under the bibles radar, so don't let them get under yours..
"If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Gal 1:6-9)..."Ignorant people distort things,to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
3. "It has to be understood in context." I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view.."
Context is a good weapon for shooting down fundies, it simply means looking at a bunch of inter-related verses rather than just concentrate on one verse.
For example Jesus said "buy swords", but by looking at the context in which he said it, we can see he didn't mean it literally and was only joking. Nowadays we'd say something like "Rough times are coming, we'd all better go out and buy machine guns, ha ha"..
4. "There was just a copying/writing error." This is sometimes called a "transcription error"... This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the Bible itself is wrong"
Individual words and phrases can have different meanings when translated into english, that's why there are so many different bible versions, as each team of translators offers an interesting new slant, but the basic underlying meaning usually remains the same..
5. "That is a miracle." Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact"
A miracle is just a word for something that can't be explained by science, for example Jesus raised 3 people from the dead.
6. "God works in mysterious ways." A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the Bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.."
There's no dodge, it's just an honest admission that we humans often can't understand how God works- "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord" (Isaiah 55:8 )
