Does God Exist?

@dalehileman,

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... as a natural phenom

I was not asking how did it happen (the cause), but rather what is the purpose of our existence, although the other side of the question is also not uninteresting.
Just don't tell me that the natural phenom is the Big Bang.

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... we have to be

Where did you get this from? When we extinct as species, as we go, what will happen with that 'have to be'?
Besides I was expecting some more serious statement, rather than pro forma answer, just for the talk.

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@RexRed,

RE: ... have been scientifically proven inept ...
I wish I had your self-confidence.
Our retard science cannot explain what our mind is and how it works and can get out of the body when we make sex, let alone to pronounce on religious issues.
Besides the various sciences are so clogged with contradictions when they collide by accident with each other that they prefer not to meet at all.
The different sciences do not have unified undertsnading of the world, not to say that even when they have similar world view they usually quarrel for the terms ... and for the interpretations.

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@Herald,

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... as a natural phenom

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I was not asking how did it happen (the cause), but rather what is the purpose of our existence,

That's really a good q, H. Intuition suggests that without us the Entire Megillah would be a pointless exercise in the random bouncing of particles

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although the other side of the question is also not uninteresting.

Agreed. For what it's worth (not much hereabout), not just we but the entire display must be a process of evolution. Religion aside, just how we got to be a special part of it is quite a mystery

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Just don't tell me that the natural phenom is the Big Bang.

Okat H if you insist, I won't

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... we have to be

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Where did you get this from?

Just seems like a reasonable conclusion entailing no paradox nor contradiction

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When we extinct as species, as we go, what will happen with that 'have to be'?

Our departure, just as our coming, just has to be

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Besides I was expecting some more serious statement, rather than pro forma answer, just for the talk.

My most abject apologies, H

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I wish y'all folks would be more attentive to the quote function. Unless you intend to have a private conversation. Us yokels can't figure out who is saying what.

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@neologist,

Uh, what, Neo, who, me?

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@dalehileman,

You and H make quite a pair.

But I love ya anyhow.

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@neologist,

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But I love ya anyhow.

You are loving us. It is exactly how it all starts ... & the next step will be to start presenting yourself as God.
To the theme:
You both cannot convince me in any way that we are children of the Big Bang, and our DNA has been arranged out of nothing ... the probability for which is 10^-64, having in mind that 10^-26 (the probability for a person to pass through concrete wall) is the absolute margin of impossibility in the physical world.
In other words the arrangement of our DNA by the master mind of the universe - Sir Big Bang ... out of nothing is exceeding 10^38 times the absolute margin of impossibility in physics & math, as we know them.

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@neologist,

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You and H make quite a pair.

Neo I'm flattered
I guess

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But I love ya anyhow.

You've made our day--mine anyhow

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@Herald,

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You are loving us. It is exactly how it all starts ... & the next step will be to start presenting yourself as God.

H isn't that an ever-so-slight stretch

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To the theme:
You both cannot convince me in any way that we are children of the Big Bang…...the absolute margin of impossibility in the physical world.

It does seem impossible doesn't it

Likely there are factors as yet undiscovered that will increase its likelihood. But I'll bet they will be found "natural"

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@Herald,

You present quite a conundrum

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@dalehileman,

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... there are factors as yet undiscovered ...

IMV we are not missing some factors, for we are missing the point. What is this God story all about?
The scientific scam with Big Bang is obvious. The newset hit is that the space is sliding under our feet while expanding, thus we succeed to stay fixed to the ground.
Moreover, the space is not only expanding, but the theory claims that its speed of expansion is accelerating ... unless those guys are totally unaware of what acceleration is.
In brief, the universe is expanding and its speed?! of expansion tends to infinity, for anything that is accelerating sooner or later reaches infinity. WFM.

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@neologist,

RE: the conundrum
Yes, it may be called conundrum, for the only possible solution is through math logic inference (reasonable ground to believe, if this could be an evidence in science).
The conundrum continues even further: If God is the Intelligence of the Universe He may not be part of our physical world. Our science for example does not consider our Mind as part of the physical world ... subjected to the Newton's & Einstein's laws of physics. Science considers our Mind as a theory, existing in the space of theories only.
If God is in a parallel universe ... or in another dimension, what physical evidences we are looking for?
By the way Big Bang is not too far away from that understanding as well, for nobody can explain from which pocket did Big Bang take out all this energy required to create the universe ... and us .... out of nothing ... without master plan ... & beyond the margin of the impossibility?

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@Herald,

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IMV we are not missing some factors, for we are missing the point. What is this God story all about?

Honestly H I'm not quite sure. I suppose what parameters must She possess in order to be said to exist

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The scientific scam with Big Bang is obvious. The newset hit is that the space is sliding under our feet while expanding, thus we succeed to stay fixed to the ground.

I hadn't heard. However it seems to agree with one notion explaining gravity (with which I'd however take issue)

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Moreover, the space is not only expanding, but the theory claims that its speed of expansion is accelerating

Last I heard the red shift seems to show distant stars accelerating away in all directions. Some say it's because the whole thing started with the BB while others maintain instead it's an expansion of space itself. I much prefer the BB theory

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... unless those guys are totally unaware of what acceleration is.

Unlikely don't you think

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In brief, the universe is expanding and its speed?! of expansion tends to infinity, for anything that is accelerating sooner or later reaches infinity. WFM.

Now, that doesn't make sense to me. No matter how big it gets how it can ever be infinite

I hasten to add I'm not promoting anybody's viewpoint, only speculating

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The conundrum continues even further: If God is the Intelligence of the Universe He may not be part of our physical world. Our science for example does not consider our Mind as part of the physical world ...

It's called dualism and has all sorts of detractors. As pantheist I tend to think of the Whole Megillah (It, Her) in more singular terms

Also I'm not sure I agree with the second statement above. I hadn't heard that "Science" had established Mind as a separate entity

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If God is in a parallel universe ... or in another dimension, what physical evidences we are looking for?

H that's really a good q. It seems the less evidence for something, the less likely

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By the way Big Bang is not too far away from that understanding as well, for nobody can explain from which pocket did Big Bang take out all this energy required to create the universe ... and us .... out of nothing ..

To skirt much paradox and contradiction we might suppose that It, She, has existed forever in one form or another: Eg: Big Bang, evolution, eventual dispersion (with cooling of course), reversal or Big Crunch; Big Bang, etcetera ad infinitum

..eventually it's shown that's just the way things have to be, that a state of nothingness is impossible

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@dalehileman,

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I'm not quite sure. I suppose what parameters must She possess in order to be said to exist

Asked in this way the question is not entirely valid. Smile

The problem with the parameters is not that they should comply with the theories for the existance, but rather that will allow and not exclude apriori the existance (at stage definition).

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@dalehileman,

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unliekely, don't you think

I am not already so sure.

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the red shift

... may not be 'Doppler effect with light' ... at all. It may be some other property of the distant travel of light, for this expansion of the universe is causing so many contradictions that it is physically impossible.

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

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the evolution of the stars ... and of the species

The evolution scam is outperforming even the scam of the Big Bang.
If the theory of evolution is true, with the increase of the CO2 in the air for example, our body should mutate in such a way as to become acid resistant ... and it is not happening. There is not any person having become acid resistant thus far.
Besides for a 'beneficial' mutatiuon to happen it needs information. Where does this information come from? The whole this thing is very suspicious.

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@Herald,

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the evolution of the stars ... and of the species

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The evolution scam is outperforming even the scam of the Big Bang.

I've heard lately that the BB is in bad repute but I was under the impression that evolution is virtually certain

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If the theory of evolution is true, with the increase of the CO2 in the air for example, our body should mutate in such a way as to become acid resistant... .

I suspect that eventually it would, esp if CO2 accumulation continues

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Besides for a 'beneficial' mutatiuon to happen it needs information.

H you'll have to expand upon this assertion, a new one on me at least

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@Herald,

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this expansion of the universe is causing so many contradictions that it is physically impossible.

To save me the rest of the morn Googling, H, wonder if you might briefly divulge one or two

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@Herald,

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If the theory of evolution is true, with the increase of the CO2 in the air for example, our body should mutate in such a way as to become acid resistant ... and it is not happening. There is not any person having become acid resistant thus far.

There is a possibility that we might mutate to cope with increased CO2 but not at the rate required. Evolution is an extremely slow process on our time scales and increasing CO2 is a rapid one on evolutionary time scales.

It might actually be happening but the changes are too minute to detect.

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@spendius,

or not

1 Reply

Does God Exist?

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