FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 03:21 am
@Quehoniaomath,
a) I was limiting the context to being able to claim genuine knowledge of the non-existence of a god; I wasn't giving him a blanket endorsement.

b) In order to believe that what Sheldrake claims about Dawkins' intellectual dishonesty, you have to presume Sheldrake's honesty, and believe you me, there are a LOT of people who strongly doubt that. (As for me, I have a certain degree of sympathy for Sheldrake when he says that science has become dogmatic, but when he goes into his claims about telepathy, etc, I remain thoroughly skeptical. The evidence he presents is partial and poorly controlled, as far as I've seen so far. I suspend judgment on that until more data is collected, analyzed and peer reviewed.)

c) At the end, he explains that an assistant had misinformed him of the purpose of the visit, and the producer of the show agreed that the assistant was at fault. That in no way implicates Dawkins himself.
Quehoniaomath
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 03:45 am
@FBM,
Quote:
@Quehoniaomath,
a) I was limiting the context to being able to claim genuine knowledge of the non-existence of a god; I wasn't giving him a blanket endorsement.


ok

Quote:

b) In order to believe that what Sheldrake claims about Dawkins' intellectual dishonesty, you have to presume Sheldrake's honesty, and believe you me, there are a LOT of people who strongly doubt that.


I don't care how many people doubt that. It is not important at all,
I only care if it is true or not, Not how popular it is.
popularity is no measure for truth. I might think you are aware of this,

Quote:

(As for me, I have a certain degree of sympathy for Sheldrake when he says that science has become dogmatic



I really think it is even more dogmatic then he claims. It is really a religion. No rational and real critical thinking allowed. I know they say it is allowed, but in actuallity it isn't.

Quote:

, but when he goes into his claims about telepathy, etc, I remain thoroughly skeptical. The evidence he presents is partial and poorly controlled, as far as I've seen so far. I suspend judgment on that until more data is collected, analyzed and peer reviewed.)


As I have stated in my thread about ESP, the evidence is more then overwhelming,
Now it is up to you to look at it, or not.That is, the evidence.

Quote:

c) At the end, he explains that an assistant had misinformed him of the purpose of the visit, and the producer of the show agreed that the assistant was at fault. That in no way implicates Dawkins himself
.

well, I think it does, but anyway there is more that show that Dawkins is very dishonest,
especially when it comes to esp and that sort of a thing.Furthermore he is not even qualified to talk about these things. Why? Simple, he hasn't researched the evidence and he showes he is extremely biased.
Strange thing for someone in his function!(Public Understanding of Science)
He does a lot of harm.

FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 05:45 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

I don't care how many people doubt that. It is not important at all,
I only care if it is true or not, Not how popular it is.
popularity is no measure for truth. I might think you are aware of this,


That's true. I wasn't suggesting the bandwagon appeal. I was just saying that there are a lot of fingers pointed back and forth, and there's the possibility that they're both guilty, to some degree. If I really cared that much about either of them, I'd investigage the tit-for-tat blow-by-blow, but I don't so I'm not. Wink

Quote:

I really think it is even more dogmatic then he claims. It is really a religion. No rational and real critical thinking allowed. I know they say it is allowed, but in actuallity it isn't.


I wouldn't argue with that for a moment.

Quote:

As I have stated in my thread about ESP, the evidence is more then overwhelming,
Now it is up to you to look at it, or not.That is, the evidence.


Which thread? Got a link? I'll give it a look.

Quote:

...there is more that show that Dawkins is very dishonest,
especially when it comes to esp and that sort of a thing.Furthermore he is not even qualified to talk about these things. Why? Simple, he hasn't researched the evidence and he showes he is extremely biased.
Strange thing for someone in his function!(Public Understanding of Science)
He does a lot of harm.


I don't doubt that he's biased, but having a bias isn't intellectual dishonesty. I think most of us are biased in one way or another, if nothing else because we each are shaped by our time, location and culture. Unfair bias is another thing. It implies (to me) that you know you're making a sloppy or fallacious judgment, but your emotions overrule your reason. Dawkins may be guilty of that, but then again so may Sheldrake. I think Sheldrake has a stronger claim of intellectual dishonesty against James Randi. He caught Randi red-handed in a deliberate lie.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 06:19 am
@FBM,
Dawkins employs optical illusions, trick photography and selective amnesia.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 07:00 am
@spendius,
If he did that, he'd be on the side of theism... Wink
Quehoniaomath
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 08:35 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Which thread? Got a link? I'll give it a look.


http://able2know.org/topic/246606-1

Quote:
I don't doubt that he's biased, but having a bias isn't intellectual dishonesty. I think most of us are biased in one way or another, if nothing else because we each are shaped by our time, location and culture. Unfair bias is another thing.


Quote:
Dawkins is indeed unfair biased.He is extremely dishonest.


please read this:

VICTOR J. ZAMMIT LAWYER rebuts Prof. Richard Dawkins, scientist, re the paranormal .
http://www.victorzammit.com/articles/dawkins.html
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 08:48 am
@FBM,
Quote:
If he did that, he'd be on the side of theism..


The usual partial response.

Unless you can provide a method of restraining our animal passions in the interests of social accord it is a dishonest response.

I assume you accept that the free exercise of those passions is a recipe for social discord and despotism.

Perhaps if you looked into the activities of Roman emperors whose passions were not restrained you might more readily see the point of Theism.

Nero, Caligula and Commodus should be sufficient but if not I can add a few more.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 03:21 pm
Quote:
FBM said to me: It's also possible to FEEL with the very same absolute certainty that Santa Claus is bringing the gifts or that you're getting your engrams stimulated

Nah mate, I knew from an early age that no way could Santa get down peoples narrow chimneys, so I never did take him seriously..Smile
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 03:31 pm
Quote:
Neologist said: I pretty much meant your idea of the resurrection, Romeo.. I simply wish to know if you believe your father will be there...

Jesus was quite clear about judgement day-
"All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28/29)

so none of us know what group we'll fall into, so your question can't be answered by me or anybody else, although I'm flattered that you think I know..Smile
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 03:41 pm
Dawkins said that if there is a god he made a poor job of the eye because it's wired up backwards.
Yet biologists have come forward to say that if the eye was wired up "properly" as Dawkins suggests, we'd all be blind!
I don't know if Dawks has since withdrawn his statement or let it stand.

Link- "According to Dawkins, ‘some of the parts in our eyes have been wired backwards!
But biologist Richard Lumsden points out it is critical to have the photoreceptive processes of the rods and cones intimately associated with the pigment layer in order to allow the light-sensitive pigment rhodopsin to regenerate. So if the rods and cones were turned around to face the incoming light, as Dawkins requires, the pigment layer would have to be between the light and the light receptors, thus blocking vision altogether!
In short, it is just as well that God, not Professor Dawkins, designed the eye!"

http://creation.com/seeing-back-to-front
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 06:22 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo. In the resurrection, let us hope there is a high probability you will both be alive. Then, in the coming millenia, you are bound to meet. The question focuses on that event. Will you continue to call him a little s^&*t? If he continues to revile you, how would that fit in with the purpose of a loving God?
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 06:37 pm
Quote:
Neologist said: Romeo. In the resurrection, let us hope there is a high probability you will both be alive. Then, in the coming millenia, you are bound to meet. The question focuses on that event. Will you continue to call him a little s^&*t? If he continues to revile you, how would that fit in with the purpose of a loving God?

Sorry mate I won't dance to your abstract hypothetical JW guesswork, have you been taking "round and round the mulberry bush" dancing lessons?
But if you want to play that silly game let me ask you this:-
if you and me bumped into each other in an afterlife would you continue calling me-
"Ignorant, malicious, fable-spinner, talks drivel, a deceiver, racist , liar, self-deluded"?..Smile
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 07:09 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
Which thread? Got a link? I'll give it a look.


http://able2know.org/topic/246606-1


OK, from what I can see, you started a thread claiming that it's all proven...so where's the proof?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 07:13 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

please read this:

VICTOR J. ZAMMIT LAWYER rebuts Prof. Richard Dawkins, scientist, re the paranormal .
http://www.victorzammit.com/articles/dawkins.html


OK, but that doesn't present any evidence of anything, including Dawkins' alleged intellectual dishonesty. It's just some guy's opinion. We need genuine evidence in order to make a fair and informed decision. Sheldrake has such evidence concerning James Randii; that's why he can openly call him a liar and not get charged with slander.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 07:19 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
If he did that, he'd be on the side of theism..


The usual partial response.

Unless you can provide a method of restraining our animal passions in the interests of social accord it is a dishonest response.

I assume you accept that the free exercise of those passions is a recipe for social discord and despotism.

Perhaps if you looked into the activities of Roman emperors whose passions were not restrained you might more readily see the point of Theism.

Nero, Caligula and Commodus should be sufficient but if not I can add a few more.


Thomas Hobbes died a long time ago. We're in the 21st century now. I rape and kill exactly as much as I want to: none.

Your words incriminate you more than anything. They suggest that you're a psychopath who is only restrained from violence by fear of reprimand. There were a number of them in the Crusades, the Salem witch hunts, the Bible-thumping KKK, etc...If you need the fear of hellfire and eternal damnation or anything else to keep you from killing, raping, robbing, etc, you need treatment.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 08:45 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Romeo. In the resurrection, let us hope there is a high probability you will both be alive. Then, in the coming millenia, you are bound to meet. The question focuses on that event. Will you continue to call him a little s^&*t? If he continues to revile you, how would that fit in with the purpose of a loving God?



According to my Bible, in the resurrection all tears will be wiped dry and there will be no remembrance of this life.

In fact, according to the Bible there is no judgment for those born of the spirit. The reasoning is that the faithful were (past tense) already judged with Christ Jesus.

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation [judgment/wrath] to them which are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Comment:
Neo it seems you are using fear to manipulate, is that the true spirit of this supposed age of "grace"?

Much love bro.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:13 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:
. . . .According to my Bible, in the resurrection all tears will be wiped dry and there will be no remembrance of this life. . . .
Are you referring to Revelation 21:3,4?
Quote:
With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
I hardly think we will not recognize our loved ones

As far as fear is concerned. All I'm pointing to is Romeo's family reunion. It does not need to be anything to fear. What of those who threaten hell fire?
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 03:17 am
@FBM,
Quote:
OK, but that doesn't present any evidence of anything, including Dawkins' alleged intellectual dishonesty. It's just some guy's opinion. We need genuine evidence in order to make a fair and informed decision. Sheldrake has such evidence concerning James Randii; that's why he can openly call him a liar and not get charged with slander.


Strange reaction indeed!
My guess is you haven't read or understood it at all!!!
Or you are deep in some sort of denial.
How can it be more clear?
we are not talking opinions here.Otherwise start studying the work about the afterlife by Victor.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 03:34 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Strange reaction indeed!
My guess is you haven't read or understood it at all!!!
Or you are deep in some sort of denial.
How can it be more clear?
we are not talking opinions here.Otherwise start studying the work about the afterlife by Victor.


I read the whole thing, top to bottom, and couldn't find a single scrap of evidence for anything. Just his anecdotes, opinions and rhetoric. Those aren't evidence. He may be right, I don't know, but he's not proving it with words like:

Quote:
A brief summary:

• Why was Prof. Dawkins not honest enough to report the huge amount of critical objective psi evidence by some of the most intelligent scientists which are changing the world to-day?

• A brilliant Ph.D physicist (Dr Fred Alan Wolf known as Dr Quantum) traveling the world lecturing on his book How Quantum Physics Proves the Existence of the Soul knows that post-physical consciousness is the greatest discovery in human history. If Dawkins disagrees with that, why has not
Dr. Dawkins tried to properly and legitimately rebut his work in context of quantum physics? That would be honest. That would show high integrity and full professional responsibility.

• Other Ph.Ds are using strict scientific method to control, measure, quantify non-physical energy in the mediumship context. This is all revolutionary stuff in science. Why is Dawkins as quiet as a mouse in these matters?

• For more on scientists succeeding in empirically investigating non-physical energy – the paranormal/afterlife go to my book.


At least Sheldraked had e-mails, direct quotes and printed documents in his claim against Randi. I don't see any of that at the link you provided.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 03:43 am
@FBM,
Ok, well I disagree however, maybe if you read Victor's work, it will put it more in context.
BUT he shows quotations from the work of the idiot Dawkins,who very clearly doesn't know what he is talking about, when it comes to ESP.
He clearly haven't seen or read ANY EVIDENCE and still is talking about it,
and rejecting something he doesn't know a thing about.
Ah well, as most professors do.
 

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