Masturbation guilt feelings - What are they about?

@neologist,

You have that exactly backwards. Western culture is odd in that it is one of the few cultures that don't consider masturbation acceptable.

There is every evidence that humans don't have any guilt associated with masturbation, except in the case where they are trained as children to be guilty.

In many families, particularly religious families, kids are indoctrinated to be ashamed. Kids who touch their genitals are yelled at, and kids are taught at an early age that sexual arousal is a sin.

It is not natural to have guilt around masturbation. This shame has to be carefully taught.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You have that exactly backwards. Western culture is odd in that it is one of the few cultures that don't consider masturbation acceptable.

There is every evidence that humans don't have any guilt associated with masturbation, except in the case where they are trained as children to be guilty.

In many families, particularly religious families, kids are indoctrinated to be ashamed. Kids who touch their genitals are yelled at, and kids are taught at an early age that sexual arousal is a sin.

It is not natural to have guilt around masturbation. This shame has to be carefully taught.

Since when is the phrase " seems to be rapidly joining the group. . ." equivalent to "considered acceptable"?

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

Lemme tell ya something about internet references.

I just googled variations of "touching genitals not always masturbation" and came up with nada.

So much for the internet.

Try goggling the thread title. I'm not talking about touching; I'm referring to the feeling some have upon orgasm.

chai2 wrote:

I guess when your doctor has to touch your genitals s/he is automatically doing something sexual to you.

Why do a persons genitals have to be relegated to the realm of sex only?

That is super weird.

Weird. True, but not on topic.

maxdancona wrote:

In many families, particularly religious families, kids are indoctrinated to be ashamed. Kids who touch their genitals are yelled at, and kids are taught at an early age that sexual arousal is a sin.. .

Once again, as I said above: "I'm not talking about touching; I'm referring to the feeling some have upon orgasm". It's not like the guilt felt over stealing. It could be . . . what? 10 times as intense? Perhaps some here have not experienced it. Perhaps the sample is too small. Perhaps I'm an idiot. But I am still somehow able to articulate what I thought was a relevant observation.

2 Replies

@neologist,

Quote:

Once again, as I said above: "I'm not talking about touching; I'm referring to the feeling some have upon orgasm". It's not like the guilt felt over stealing. It could be . . . what? 10 times as intense? Perhaps some here have not experienced it. Perhaps the sample is too small. Perhaps I'm an idiot. But I am still somehow able to articulate what I thought was a relevant observation.

You are missing the point Neo.

Everyone knows what you are talking about. All of us have experienced it. This is a natural and normal part of human sexuality.

Humans don't have a natural instinct to be guilty about this. Many Americans, particularly those of us raised in religious households, feel guilty about it because they were taught to feel ashamed.

If you were raised in a different cultural setting, you wouldn't feel guilty about it.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You are missing the point Neo.

Everyone knows what you are talking about. All of us have experienced it. This is a natural and normal part of human sexuality.

Humans don't have a natural instinct to be guilty about this. Many Americans, particularly those of us raised in religious households, feel guilty about it because they were taught to feel ashamed.

If you were raised in a different cultural setting, you wouldn't feel guilty about it.

Sorry for being so obtuse.

Children are told to brush their teeth, to wash hands before eating, to refrain from handling their genitals, except for toilet, not to steal, etc. Violations of these are accompanied by varying levels of guilt: perhaps 3 to 6 on a scale of 1 to 10. Is everyone trying to say that the level 10 guilt experienced after orgasm is simply a result of cultural influence?

I have trouble accepting that.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Is everyone trying to say that the level 10 guilt experienced after orgasm is simply a result of cultural influence?

You have a level 10 guilt for Masturbation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad you can not bring a lawsuit over your parents poor child rearing if that is the case.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Masturbation guilt feelings...
So, are they universal? Are they learned or innate

All feelings of guilt are learned--they are instilled. They are part of the cultural conditioning of the child that's transmitted by the parents/caretakers and the surrounding society.

Do you think there are any feelings of guilt, about doing anything, that haven't been learned? Do you think humans are born with any innate feelings of guilt?

With masturbation, there may be learned guilt about performing the act, or there might only be learned guilt about performing it in certain situations, like in public. But both types would be learned.

Quote:

Is everyone trying to say that the level 10 guilt experienced after orgasm is simply a result of cultural influence?

I don't know about everyone, but I'm saying the feeling of guilt regarding masturbation, and just about everything else, is learned. If you've been raised with a strong taboo against masturbation, you might experience "level 10 guilt" after orgasm for stimulating yourself to experience such a "guilty pleasure."

Guilt over actions is not inherent, it's learned. What's inherent is the capacity to experience the feelings we associate with guilt and the capacity to associate these feelings with our actions. Which actions we associate those feelings with are what's learned.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

You have a level 10 guilt for Masturbation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disclaimer:
Like everyone, I managed to overcome with practice. Mr. Green

0 Replies

@firefly,

firefly, answering neo wrote:

All feelings of guilt are learned--they are instilled. They are part of the cultural conditioning of the child that's transmitted by the parents/caretakers and the surrounding society.

Do you think there are any feelings of guilt, about doing anything, that haven't been learned? Do you think humans are born with any innate feelings of guilt?

I think we all have an inborn conscience. I could be wrong, but I think the scriptures also agree. In spite of what nominal christians may believe with their holier than thou attitudes, the world abounds with good people. For, according to Paul ". . . whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts . . .". (Romans 2:14,15)

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@neologist,

Quote:

I think we all have an inborn conscience. I could be wrong, but I think the scriptures also agree.

No we don't have "an inborn conscience". We are born with the capacity to develop a conscience, or a super-ego, but the things that comprise that conscience, the things we feel guilt about, are learned. We are socialized to feel guilt over certain actions.

I suggest you don't look solely to the scriptures to understand the process of human development, particularly the development of morality. There is an entire area of child/developmental psychology devoted to studying and understanding the topic of moral development in children.

Right now I'm in the process of raising a recently acquired puppy. A good deal of what I'm doing is teaching him what behaviors are acceptable and which are not--I'm socializing him to live in my environment. I want him to eventually inhibit certain behaviors, like peeing on the rug, or chewing on the furniture, even when I'm not present--I want him to be able to control himself by some inner "conscience", and I do believe dogs acquire such internal controls. Ever see a dog slink away in shame when their misdeed has been discovered, or an owner says, "What did you do?" That's not just fear of punishment, because I've never punished any of my dogs. They react to the disapproval, they know they've violated a boundary.

It's certainly more complex to raise a human than a puppy, but the same basic learning principles apply to both when it comes to teaching them what is acceptable and what is not, what is wrong and what is right--the message, along with various rewards or punishments for certain behaviors, is transmitted by the caretakers. That's how socialization takes place. That's how guilt is learned.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I think we all have an inborn conscience. I could be wrong, but I think the scriptures also agree.

The scriptures may agree, but science doesn't.

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@firefly,

I majored in psychology.
No need to remind me of theory.
I understand the operation of cognitive dissonance and learning.

I hold to the idea that we have a certain gut feeling of absolute good.

Apparently I am awash in a tsunami of opposing belief.

3 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Once again, as I said above: "I'm not talking about touching; I'm referring to the feeling some have upon orgasm".

So touching yourself for any number of reasons wouldn't involve guilt if you orgasm was involved?

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I hold to the idea that we have a certain gut feeling of absolute good.

what does masturbation have to do with this?

(other than masturbation feeling good)

it seems like you're trying to put an overlay of your particular belief system on something normal and natural and healthy

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Apparently I am awash in a tsunami of opposing belief.

It doesn't have to do with belief for most people. It has to do with knowledge.

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@neologist,

Quote:

I hold to the idea that we have a certain gut feeling of absolute good.

And you think we are born with that? Which gene would carry that?

What is "absolute good"? It sounds like a metaphysical concept to me. Would all people, in your view, share the same view of what is "absolute good"?

Quote:

Apparently I am awash in a tsunami of opposing belief.

That may be because your personal frame of reference, regarding the topic, appears to be a "belief" system (something that's also learned), and you're attempting to understand behavior in those terms, rather than the secular, and demonstrable, concepts employed by social scientists, which are accepted by others here. My disagreement with you is not an "opposing belief"--because my thinking is not based on "belief" in any metaphysical sense. I know that human behavior is shaped by certain conditions of learning because there is an enormous amount of objective data to support that conclusion. And you actually haven't said anything, yet, that would contradict that.

I think you're also confusing the issue, and the discussion, somewhat because you're shifting between how morality is acquired initially--how and why a child might learn to feel guilty about masturbating, for instance--and the way fully developed adults act, particularly when they exhibit "goodness" or experience guilt about having satisfying organisms. A lot of living, and learning, goes on between childhood and adulthood, and I'm unclear which end of the age spectrum you want to focus on.

1 Reply

@firefly,

What is it that compels a mother to care for her child?

2 Replies

@neologist,

Biology and chemistry.

There are some terrific studies out there about how people react to babies with big cheeks - straight-on biological reactions.

Also some marvellous studies about how mothers and babies react to each others scents. Chemistry.

Nothing moral or 'good' going on there.

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@neologist,

Quote:

What is it that compels a mother to care for her child?

What do you mean by "compels"? If all mothers were "compelled", by instinct alone, to care for their children, we'd have a lot less child neglect and abuse.

I think "maternal instincts" are rather weak in the human, as compared to other mammals, and the humans must engage in far longer periods of "mothering" than the other species of mammals--about 18 years long, until that "mothering" responsibility ends and the child is considered an independent adult in our society. Very little of what human mothers do, in caring for their children, is actually based on innate instinct. A great deal of it is learned behavior.

But why are you raising the issue of maternal instincts? You're all over the map.

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One reason I chose to title this thread masturbation guilt instead of murder guilt is that it would be unlikely to find any murderers willing to share their feelings. Also, masturbation seems so trivial compared to robbery, rape, or murder - heck, even nose picking.

I had discovered what seemed to be an abundance of links to the observation, so decided to post. You may remember I have opinions about the practice of masturbation, a few of them posted here: http://able2know.org/topic/49385-3#post-1305498. (Not well received then, either Confused

) Quick summary: Masturbation fantasies, including those which may be criminal, are reinforced by orgasm. This is a scientific fact.

OP for this thread was to search for anecdotal verification of ingrained conscience. Not going well, I'll admit.

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Masturbation guilt feelings - What are they about?

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