What would the World be like if JESUS had never been Born?

Tex-Star, I believe Jesus is God. God had to provide a righteous and perfect sacrifice. There was no man who is righteous. The people of Moses grieved God and said come down and see what it is like to be amongst mankind and to try to fill the demands that you require. As Isaiah spoke concerning the Israelites... And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUEL = God among us. Jesus proceeded forth from God...Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Original Hebrew used the word yáçaph = proceeded; meaning to continue to do a thing, increase, surpass. Jesus was sent for he has always been from the beginning = In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Gods Spirit roams the Heavens and the earth. Can he not be in 2 places at one time? Yes he can be in all places at one time. He was in Heaven even as he was in Jesus the man. Even as he is now in mankind through his Holy Spirit. I and my FATHER ARE ONE. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: Jesus has all power even to raise the dead, which has been only attributed to a God in Heaven. But Jesus states he came from Heaven and will raise from the dead all those who believe in him. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Not that any man hath SEEN THE FATHER, save he which is of God, he hath SEEN THE FATHER. Simply put Jesus is saying here those who know Jesus have seen the Father. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Quote:

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jesus states here The Father, Himself and the Holy Spirt = we will come unto him + Make OUR abode with him. All one essence. The white pure light that goes into a prism comes out with multiple colors. There is a hidden mystery in a prism as in the trinity. Although some come to understand.

bongstar, I was not sure of your last post, whether or not you are being serious. Rolling Eyes

I wrote that the trinity is a mystery not for myself but for those who still cannot comprehend the oneness of the trinity. They all are of the same origin and essence. Doing the same work in different ways, bearing the same exact knowledge and wisdom of the other two. I think I explained it just above.

0 Replies

Ruach wrote:

Tex-Star, I believe Jesus is God. God had to provide a righteous and perfect sacrifice.

Really!

Seems to me this is only true is the god is a piece of dung. Otherwise -- no "sacrifice" is necessary.

0 Replies

Frank, IMO natch

you are overrating gods to much. There is no good evidence that any god ever made a flower grow, or nourished a tree. Sad

Dung can help do all those things.

I wouldn't normally be so sensitive but a good part of my work is involved with gathering and distributing large quantities of chicken dung as to provide crops for people to use. I hate to see dung and gods regarded as equivalents. Laughing

0 Replies

akaMechsmith wrote:

Frank, IMO natch

you are overrating gods to much. There is no good evidence that any god ever made a flower grow, or nourished a tree.

Dung can help do all those things.

I wouldn't normally be so sensitive but a good part of my work is involved with gathering and distributing large quantities of chicken dung as to provide crops for people to use. I hate to see dung and gods regarded as equivalents.

Point taken!!! Embarrassed

0 Replies

Jesus was manufactured by the PR machine to tidy up the image of his angry, jealous father. The war god was fine in the ancient east when man's only source of distinction was prowess in battle or bed. The Greeks, who shared these lusts but also believed that a dash of civility did not diminish a man, required a God who offered more than a big war club.
Through the agency of Paul nee Saul of Tarsus, the hebrew god was refurbished in the the image of a wise, gentle and unfortunate Nazarene.

0 Replies

I think Allah/God/Jehovah must have had a rather strange sense of humour to tell Mohammed Jesus and Moses that they and their people are the only representatives of the one True God, then leave them alone to work it all out for themselves.

Or alternatively it might have been an excercise in social Darwinism, i.e. leave them alone for long enough and the religion best fitted to its environment will survive by adaptation and evolution, whilst the others will atrophy and die out.

How wonderful it would be if 2004 was the year in which mankind stopped invoking religion to justify acts of inhumanity. In fact just stopped invoking religion.

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I think Allah/God/Jehovah must have had a rather strange sense of humour to tell Mohammed Jesus and Moses that they and their people are the only representatives of the one True God, then leave them alone to work it all out for themselves.

Or alternatively it might have been an excercise in social Darwinism, i.e. leave them alone for long enough and the religion best fitted to its environment will survive by adaptation and evolution, whilst the others will atrophy and die out.

How wonderful it would be if 2004 was the year in which mankind stopped invoking religion to justify acts of inhumanity. In fact just stopped invoking religion.

Ahhhh...if only!!!!

0 Replies

I suspect that the reason that there is no mention of female homosexuality in the Bible is because the writer (God?) had a very low opinion of women. Just who cared what women or the lower animals did.

It simply never occurred to the author that women might be equally human . Still doesn't in much of the religious world. Sad

0 Replies

the whole question "Was jesus born?" is actually one of the most important to ask yourself as a christian.

in my belief jesus was born of marry; it was one of gods scrafices to us:

THE ALMIGHTY GOD was born? why? why would HE of all things be BORN. It would have been considered a SHAME in those time which in my opinion is another reason why people coulnd accept the fact that Jesus was the son of God.

so basiclly God wanted to say:

For you my sons and daughters I will not only send my son to die on the cross, ill do much more, ill shame myself and be BORN unto men, being subject to the same harshness and turmoil. I myself will be BORN! FOR YOU! LOVE ME!, I LOVE YOU THAT MUCH!

it is really a big wake-up call

Edit (MODERATOR): Signature removed. Please do not employ links or images in Signatures

0 Replies

Welcome Name to a2k. I liked your self expressed post. Very Happy

I also believe what you posted too.

0 Replies

thanks a bunch and thankyou for your welcome

Edit (MODERATOR): Signature removed. Please do not employ links or images in Signatures

0 Replies

Bong,
As I understand (very limitedly) in ancient Greece right up until the times of Jesus virgin births were rather common. Incubuses and sucubuses were running around all over the place impregnating young ladies and transporting young men to the realm of blissful experiences.

Even Phillip of Macedon (Alexander the Greats father) was sired by a bull. As a result I would suspect that a couple of thousand years ago in Judea it was not particularily noteworthy to have a virgin bear children.

Things may be different now Rolling Eyes

0 Replies

well that might be true but i think Bong was refering to the piece of the dead sea scrolls that clame marry to have not been a "virgin" by what the definition of the word is today--infact she had already had relations with other men besides Josef so she was a "virgin" unto Josef

Edit (MODERATOR): Signature removed. Please do not employ links or images in Signatures

0 Replies

Name wrote:

the whole question "Was jesus born?" is actually one of the most important to ask yourself as a christian.

in my belief jesus was born of marry; it was one of gods scrafices to us:

THE ALMIGHTY GOD was born? why? why would HE of all things be BORN. It would have been considered a SHAME in those time which in my opinion is another reason why people coulnd accept the fact that Jesus was the son of God.

so basiclly God wanted to say:

For you my sons and daughters I will not only send my son to die on the cross, ill do much more, ill shame myself and be BORN unto men, being subject to the same harshness and turmoil. I myself will be BORN! FOR YOU! LOVE ME!, I LOVE YOU THAT MUCH!

it is really a big wake-up call

Well, there certainly is another way of looking at this, Name. One could also say that the lesson given here is:

The god of the Bible is saying, "Just about everything you stinking humans do, offends me. But I am willing to forgive you for offending me so much, but in order for me to do that, I require that you first torture and kill my son!"

Quite a god, that one!

0 Replies

Name-

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

Quote:

"The Blessed Virgin Mary . . ." The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body.

". . .in the first instance of her conception . . ." The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul.

I always find it amazing that many Christians do not understand this most basic of Christian thought!

0 Replies

ok thanks

Edit (MODERATOR): Signature removed. Please do not employ links or images in Signatures

0 Replies

Phoenix, I did like the previous post.
I was wondering if you understood this a little more....
"Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation,"

Otherwise you seem to be stating that the virgin birth was not at conception but at the time that the soul came into existance. Do I understand that correctly. Smile

It sounds reasonable what you have written. I am not sure I understand completely.

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

I always find it amazing that many Christians do not understand this most basic of Christian thought!

well...if you're catholic, yeah....

but i like these passages:

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God(Rom. 3:23).

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. (1 John 1:10)

From an unscriptural belief about Mary's conception, many have been further misled to trust in her instead of the God of the Scriptures. This God has revealed His truth in the Bible, which leads us to the Lord Jesus. He alone is the Christian's refuge, hope, strength, etc. Spiritual life is only found in him, according to Scripture. He is to be the object of our faith for salvation. This is vital truth for many sincere Catholics because the Mary of Catholicism is not the Mary of the Bible.

0 Replies

Ruach wrote:

Phoenix, I did like the previous post.
I was wondering if you understood this a little more....
"Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation,"

Otherwise you seem to be stating that the virgin birth was not at conception but at the time that the soul came into existance. Do I understand that correctly.
It sounds reasonable what you have written. I am not sure I understand completely.

Ruach

You are making the mistake of supposing that the Immaculate Conception has something to do with the Virgin Birth.

They are two separate events -- one dealing with the conception of Mary -- and one with the conception of Jesus.

0 Replies

Setanta has just destroyed the basis for Christianity.

I have been looking for a rationale to tear myself away from that religion.

Won't you please tell us, Setanta, why it is demonstrable that such an individual( Jesus Christ) was never born. It would save a lot of people a great deal of trouble. As I read your posts,. I realize that you are most erudite and learned and that is why some of us have come on to this site- to learn.

So, please, teach us!!!

0 Replies

What would the World be like if JESUS had never been Born?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know