What would the World be like if JESUS had never been Born?

I am Jewish. There are problematic verses in many ancient texts and religions always find a way to deal with them. This is true of Judaism too. For the sake of gaining actual insight into the Historical happenings, these justifications and half-truths must be stripped away, regardless of how comforting they are. Only then can we begin to encounter the person or persons, or created person or persons that have been lost to the myths and legends that built up after them.

I would do the same to Moses or Abraham, only they are so lost in the seas of their legends that I doubt anything can ever be known.

When you approach this you look for a person pursuing a noble cause who always stood for what he believed in and did what was right, died for what he believed was right, an ideal man. When I approach this I look for a man. Whose agenda is more appropriate in a thread about what the world would be like if this this individual was never born?

I am not denying your belief in God, nor the way you deal with that belief. All approaches to God are equally valid in their own way.

I am challenging you to toss your religiously-understood notions aside and try to get to the root of the matter of who this man actually was, if he was at all.

Actually, I've just signed up for a class today with a teacher who has had people walk out on him because what he said was blasphemous to them. It's on the History and Ideology of Ancient Israel and he's going to show, particularly, how the ideology of Israel shaped the way they portrayed History. One thing I gather based on what he's said is that he is going to tear the religous understanding of David to shreds, showing that in reality he was not a nice guy at all.

My feeling on Abraham is that he didn't exist, or that if he did there's really nothing we can know about him. He may have just been the result of an origin myth. My feeling about Moses is that he may have existed, but all of our surviving records are biased and can't be trusted for an accurate understanding. My profesor did mention that originally the tribes were not united together and they each had their own shrines. They worshipped the same god, but there would be a separate sort of manifestation in each place. It was very similar to the worshipper of Baal in that way. What I wrote now is really disjointed and I don't think I've said much, but at least you know I'm critical of my own texts too. It seems like you say I have an agenda so that you can disregard what I have to say.

I respect that you had an experience and that you found the teachings that you attribute to Jesus helpful. This does not mean that Jesus taught them. Nor does it have anything to do with how honest he was. And I did not deny that those who follow the teachings attributed to Jesus have a better life than they did before. I'm not concerned with that. I am concerned with the Historical figure known today as Jesus. Do the teachings define the man? Were the teachings by the man? There have been people throughout History who taught things contradictory to the way they lived their lives.

Does this mean that I can teach people to love one another and then sleep with my brother's wife and strangle their baby? No. This is an exaggeration.

But first it needs to be established if Jesus actually taught those things. If he did teach those things, it needs to be established whether they were new or not.

The question is whether your faith is strong enough to pursue the truth and test it with the greatest of rattling. This is an issue I am confronting right now in my own life. If you are not, we should probably end this conversation. I won't be able to respond much for the next few days anyway.

Algis

It's spelt Muslim and the religion is Islam. Geez, some people are so uninformed nowadays. I suppose you're saying 'Moslem' because they're usually terrorists to you.

I've browsed around and it seems a lot of Yanks seem to say 'Moslem' quite usually followed by the word 'fundamentalist' or 'terrorist'. It's like all Yanks seem to hate all Muslims for simply being. Seems a lot like the crusades.
Spooky stuff.

i've never seen it spelt moslem, and i've lived most of my life in an arab country

Main Entry: moslem Pronunciation Guide
Usage: usually capitalized
variant of MUSLIM