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The American Government Has Gone Rogue

 
 
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:23 pm
Quote:
There are plenty of problems with President Obama’s targeted killings in the war against terrorism: The policy remains secret in most aspects, involves no judicial review, has resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians, has been employed far from any battlefield and has sparked deep anti-American resentment in countries where we can ill afford it.

But when it comes to the particular legal issue raised in a recently leaked “white paper” from the Justice Department — namely, whether it is legal to kill Americans with drones — one problem looms largest: The policy permits the government to kill its citizens in secret while refusing to acknowledge, even after the fact, that it has done so.

There may be extraordinary occasions when killing a citizen is permissible, but it should never be acceptable for the government to refuse to acknowledge the act. How can we be free if our government has the power to kill us in secret? And how can a sovereign authority be accountable to the people if the sovereign can refuse to own up to its actions?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obama-did-or-did-you-not-kill-anwar-al-awlaki/2013/02/08/0347f4de-70c9-11e2-a050-b83a7b35c4b5_story.html?hpid=z2

David Cole teaches constitutional law at Georgetown University and is the legal affairs correspondent for the Nation. He is the author of “The Torture Memos: Rationalizing the Unthinkable.”

it is long past time to chop it down to size, and yes, force will be required.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 15 • Views: 4,679 • Replies: 106

 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
By "force" do you mean court order?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 01:45 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

By "force" do you mean court order?

have you seen some of the abusive and corrupt government acts that have gained court approval? the courts do not protect us. judges however can be persuaded to get on the stick with the threat of armed citizen revolt which will be carried out if they refuse to reform.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 02:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
You might recall that I have long made the case that what happens in our courts is often abusive. Sex law is my go to example but it is far from the only one. I have for instance mentioned abuse of the bail system and the use of the courts by the ruling class to supress the will of the rest of us because most of us don't have the funds to play but they do. Charge shopping, heaping penalty on a few to serve as examples, and the depriving men of their children in divorce are other examples mentioned by me. Failure to make to government respect our rights is just one of many failures of the current courts.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 02:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
I guess it's time for you to start your revolution, then.

What, may I ask, do you intend to replace the current government with?
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 02:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
I too am worried about the whole Constitutionality (NOT to mention the "righteousness") of killing Americans by drones without evidence or any thing other than someone's "sayso"

30 yeqrs ago, this would have been the plot of some "Dystopian science fiction" movie.
roger
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 03:00 pm
@farmerman,
I agree. It's a strange definition of 'due process'.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 03:21 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:



What, may I ask, do you intend to replace the current government with?


The constitutional rule of law that we have is fine, it's the players that must be replaced.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 03:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:


it is long past time to chop it down to size, and yes, force will be required.




Agreed.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:03 pm
@H2O MAN,
NOW this kind of mindless prose scares me just as much.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:12 pm
@farmerman,
it's like the american revolution for dummies...
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:13 pm

We told you of Obama's core values... we didn't vote for him... we didn't elect him.
The liberal media never questioned Obama's core values and neither did the dumbmasses.
The dumbmasses elected this person twice and they need to accept responsibility for their actions.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:14 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

it's like the american revolution for dummies...


more like the American revolution to protect the dumbmasses from their own actions...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:19 pm
@H2O MAN,
and you look for every fuckin opportunity to remind us of these points.
Your logic is totally whacked.
We are in agreement that the govt is overstepping constuitutionality on this (IMHO). Your solution is to KILL PEOPLE TOO. You realize how stupid and crazy you sound SPURT?

We have several branches of govt and the entire action is really "a proposal", although many of us feel it is a wrong way to go. I think that the other branches of govt will exert influence on this proposal.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:24 pm


Elections do have consequences...
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:25 pm
@H2O MAN,
a question spurt. What do you think of Abe Lincoln's presidency?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 04:53 pm
@DrewDad,
Bombs and civil war just don't seem to work in the real world like hawkeye keeps imagining they will.

Quote:
The FBI arrested a California ex-convict early Friday as he allegedly tried to blow up a Bank of America branch in Oakland, hoping to start a civil war.

Matthew Aaron Llaneza, 28, of San Jose, was detained after he tried using a cellphone to detonate an explosives-packed SUV at a BofA branch near the Oakland Airport,

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/08/fbi-bank-bomb-oakland-civil-war/1903121/
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 05:01 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
30 yeqrs ago, this would have been the plot of some "Dystopian science fiction" movie.


You are one terribly ignorant doofus, Farmer. This has been going on for much longer than 30 years.

But for a guy whose mantra is, "My country wrong or wrong or wrong or wrong", this too can be easily swept under the rug.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 05:02 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
The constitutional rule of law that we have is fine,


I don't know who is the more ignorant doofus, you or Farmer.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2013 05:05 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
We told you of Obama's core values...


"core values" - absolutely the wrong words when you are dealing with US governments and those that support their crimes.
0 Replies
 
 

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