Why has it almost Become Impossible to Converse with and Enjoy Those Who Differ?

@Frank Apisa,

Yes, on all counts.

Hawkeye's one failing, imo, is that he spouts "truth" when it's clearly opinion. It's hard not to roll one's eyes when someone designates himself as the arbiter of truth for the collective.

Hawk -- your opinions are you own, but don't presume to speak for anyone else. It's annoying as hell.

1 Reply

@JPB,

Well...thanks for the agreement, JPB...but my comment was directed more at Ossobuco's actions than at Hawk's. Ossobuco regularly intrudes in discussions I am having...and castigates me for expressing what I consider important opinions and considerations.

Ossobuco has every right to do this, but I just think she would be better off just ignoring what I say if she finds it boring or repetitive.

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@Frank Apisa,

That's why I said "on all counts".

I've talked about troll trollers before. I'm not saying you're a troll or that osso is a troll troller but it's a variation on the same theme.

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@JPB,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5228054)
That's why I said "on all counts".

I've talked about troll trollers before. I'm not saying you're a troll or that osso is a troll troller but it's a variation on the same theme.

We are on the same page of the same book, JPB. Thanks!

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

We see it here on A2K all of the time, for instance where Reds and Blues cant be in the same place without picking at their differences and usually insulting each other.

Why does this happen?

I disagree with the premise of this question. Some people can disagree without insulting each other. For example, georgeob1 and joefromchicago disagree with me all the time, but the tone between us is always courteous and usually friendly. So it's definitely possible that people can't disagree without being disagreeable anymore. It's just that some don't want to.

I also disagree with the notion that it has become almost impossible to converse and enjoy those who differ. This notion compares the real present with a falsely imagined past. Trolls, bigots, and crybabies have always been part of A2K, and part of Abuzz before that.

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@ossobuco,

You have a very valid point here, Osso. I can see the difference in my own posts between adding actual opinion or knowledge (maybe) and partaking in personal jabs. The former is ok, the latter is not. I will attempt to do a much better job at reducing the latter. I think that when you find yourself posting about another forum member instead of the subject matter, that is a clear sign that you are not adding anything worthwhile to the discussion. I think that is a big part of the original question in this thread.

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@IRFRANK,

Quote:

I think that when you find yourself posting about another forum member instead of the subject matter, that is a clear sign that you are not adding anything worthwhile to the discussion. I think that is a big part of the original question in this thread.

it is pretty much like refusing to sit down to dinner because you are pissed off at the person who does not agree with you. you instead block the exit to the room and insist on continuing the argument, as the turkey sits on the table getting cold. I think that too many people being willing to engage in this immaturity or at least tolerate it without objection has hurt A2K a great deal. just like with Washington we are left to wonder where all of the adults have gone.

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That was typical of your overblown rhetoric. Nobody here "blocks the exit." You can come and go as you please. You are also free to ignore someone who is trying to pick a fight with you, no one forces you either to read other people's post nor to respond to them. This is just more typical Chicken Little melodrama.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

... or at least tolerate it without objection

It's not productive to object to someone else's behavior here both because I don't own the place and because you just end up in a flame war about Internet manners. IMO, the best way to address improper behavior online is just to ignore it.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Quote:

the best way to address improper behavior online is just to ignore it.

Exactly. It helps us stop contributing to it also.

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@Frank Apisa,

When the repetition goes on (and on, etc.) and inserts itself into other threads, it is plain old obnoxious.

I do have a right to speak, that's correct. How many times have I spoken, Frank, in the ten years we have talked and you have promo'd your view? I think I have tended to speak when your were being incessant.

I don't like going to names as we are all involved in this stuff and so my naming isn't meant as some disaster for either person,

but

billrm and firefly are over not only the top, but many tops. Together they can kill threads' pages in big gulps. Neither of them ever shut up except perhaps to eat or sleep, and much of it is a wheel going round and round the same ground.

I'll give them both acknowledgement for making points, but then they get into grinding gravel. Then another ten pages go by.

The rest of us leave.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5228054)
When the repetition goes on (and on, etc.) and inserts itself into other threads, it is plain old obnoxious.

I do have a right to speak, that's correct. How many times have I spoken, Frank, in the ten years we have talked and you have promo'd your view? I think I have tended to speak when your were being incessant.

I don't like going to names as we are all involved in this stuff and so my naming isn't meant as some disaster for either person,

but

billrm and firefly are over not only the top, but many tops. Together they can kill threads' pages in big gulps. Neither of them ever shut up except perhaps to eat or sleep, and much of it is a wheel going round and round the same ground.

I'll give them both acknowledgement for making points, but then they get into grinding gravel. Then another ten pages go by.

The rest of us leave.

I'm going to apologize for the comment in a sec, but first I want to at mention why it was made in the first place.

You've posted your displeasure often enough; recently enough; and jarringly enough for me to mention it in the very moderate way that I did, Ossobuco. And it was a comment that was germane to the issue being discussed here.

I left Internet discussions for a while because I noticed I was doing more and more of the gratuitous insulting nonsense that seems to be such an "essential" part of Internet "discussions." I made a personal vow that I would not return until I was able to have a discussions without all that nonsense...even when provoked. I think I have been doing pretty good in that area since returning.

I thank you for the reasonable tone of this last message...and I want to offer a sincere apology if the comment, no matter how germane, has caused any further deterioration in the discussion relationship we have developed over the many years.

I have VERY strong feelings about questioning people who make assertions that are absolute. There is nothing wrong with asking (and often completely appropriate to ask) anyone at any time: Do you KNOW that or is it something you suspect or guess?

I'm sorry if it bothers you when I do it, but all I can suggest is that you ignore my posts when you see it happening.

You are a reasonable poster...and I want to maintain a good relationship with you.

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Well said. Both of you!

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Old Mr. "Do You Know" . . . and yet you constantly assert that people are angry, or hostile . . . you did i just yesterday in the Newtown thread. Now do you know that? You really need to remove the beam from your eye before you concern yourself with motes in the eyes of others. You also have a decided propensity to make snide remarks about others, to sneer at them, and all the while congratulating yourself on your civility.

You're a hoot.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta...anyone who would take seriously a lecture from you on being reasonable and polite would probably buy that bridge you so often have for sale.

Glad to see you are still reading my posts.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

See Frank, you can't respond without a snotty remark. I wasn't lecturing, i was pointing out your hypocrisy. You follow your usual path, which is to avoid the subject and to attempt to divert the discussion to another path. You routinely rant about what people can and can't know, and yet you continually assert that you know that people are angry and hostile. When i've challenged you on that, you flatly assert that you KNOW that i'm angry. I suspect that if anyone else challenged you, you'd respond in like manner. You can dance and dodge all you want, the fact remains that you're a hypocrite on the subject of knowing, and you're a hypocrite on the subject of civility. Unlike you, i don't make phony claims for myself about civility.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

Unlike you, i don't make phony claims for myself about civility.

Yes...I can understand that.

Anyway, I repeat:

I left Internet discussions for a while because I noticed I was doing more and more of the gratuitous insulting nonsense that seems to be such an "essential" part of Internet "discussions." I made a personal vow that I would not return until I was able to have a discussions without all that nonsense...even when provoked. I think I have been doing pretty good in that area since returning.

Great talking with ya, Setanata. Always a pleasure.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You big phony . . . you started a stupid thread in which you claimed that conservatives were always on the wrong side of every issue, and you used the American revolution and the American civil war as examples. I came along and told you that was bullshit, and pointed out why. Eventually you lost it and said "F*ck you" to me, and you got banned for it. That's why you "left internet discussions." Since you've been back, you've changed your MO, but you're still just as snide and sarcastic and hostile as you ever were. I don't think you've done a good job at all, you're just being a phony and a hypocrite about it.

By the way, i responded, even though you seem to have been talking to someone called Setanata, whoever that is. Just calm down, Frank, take a deep breath, let the anger and hostility bleed away . . .

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

You big phony . . . you started a stupid thread in which you claimed that conservatives were always on the wrong side of every issue, and you used the American revolution and the American civil war as examples. I came along and told you that was bullshit, and pointed out why. Eventually you lost it and said "F*ck you" to me, and you got banned for it. That's why you "left internet discussions." Since you've been back, you've changed your MO, but you're still just as snide and sarcastic and hostile as you ever were. I don't think you've done a good job at all, you're just being a phony and a hypocrite about it.

By the way, i responded, even though you seem to have been talking to someone called Setanata, whoever that is. Just calm down, Frank, take a deep breath, let the anger and hostility bleed away . . .

Jeez, you seem to be all exercised today.

There was the incident you mentioned, but that was not the reason I left the Internet the last time I left. I left for the reason I said. But you just want to argue...and much as I hate to acknowledge it, I want to enjoy watching you stew...so, I guess we just do this for a while until.

Hope life has been good for you recently, old friend. Mine has been terrific...except for the golf, which, as you might imagine, has been played in loads of mud. Damn courses are thawing at the same time as rain has been falling...and it has been pure hell to play with all the mud around. But at this time of the year, ya gotta be happy with a few good shots and not worry too much about the stale swing or the poor conditions. In any case, getting out and exercising is almost a necessity at this stage of my life.

Hope you are getting plenty also. Wink

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That's right Frank, never face up to the issue, never discuss your own failings, always try to divert the discussion to something less unpleasant, something which doesn't reveal you in a true light. Phony.

No Frank, i'm not stweing--you wish. In fact, i've been laughing my ass off at your typical bullshit.

1 Reply

Why has it almost Become Impossible to Converse with and Enjoy Those Who Differ?

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